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  • Red Army at the Brink of Collapse?

    I have heard from one particular member that the Red Army was on the Brink of Collapse at the end of WW2?

    To what extent is this true?
    Task Force Regenbogen- Support and Paras

  • #2
    Collapse, I would say not at all.

    After four years of war and massive losses, the Red Army and it's leadership were not about to stop or give up! They all wanted revenge.

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    • #3
      In ww1 which did happen thats all i know of russian collapse and the 80s

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dann Falk View Post
        Collapse, I would say not at all.

        After four years of war and massive losses, the Red Army and it's leadership were not about to stop or give up! They all wanted revenge.
        The same could be said of the Russian Army of 1917, but the fact is that in any organization can only take so much abuse before it begins to disintegrate. It;'s not just a matter of elan, it's supply, reserves, equipment and general war exhaustion.

        I don't think the Red Army was going to collapse in 1945, any more than the Japanese Army. But enfeeblement was setting in in the Red Army and was well established in the Japanese. Revenge or not, Soviet success in 1945 was more dictated by the material collapse of the German Army, which IIRC took half it's total KIAs in 1945. If the Germans were in better shape, or better yet, the Allies launched Operation Unthinkable, the Red Army would have quickly have become as ineffective as the Wehrmacht post March 45.

        But, that is what I am given to understand. And if I have more to learn, let class begin!
        How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
        275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

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        • #5
          The Soviet military, nowhere near collapse. The Soviet Economy, possibly. The Soviet economy had been stretched to the limit and beyond during the war, to the point where maintenance of basic infrastructure and population was not taking place. Without the non-military Lend Lease (supplementary foodstuffs, railroad equipment, special metals and fuel additives) the Soviet economy would have been hard put to continue at the same level of output. If you look at the production figures, in fact, the production of aircraft, tanks, and other military equipment was already declining at the end of 1944.
          On the other hand, the military was, in equipment, morale and technical expertese, getting better right up to the end of the war. In June 1945 the tank and mechanized corps in Europe started converting to tank and mechanized divisions, each with its own 63-tank regiment of IS-II or IS-III heavy tanks, in addition to the wartime complement of medium tanks - now T-34-85s or the new T-44s (which were in production before the war ended). New antiaircraft divisions and antitank brigades were being formed right up to the end of the war in Europe, the latter with new towed 100mm guns being added since the beginning of 1945. Two additional tank army HQ, the 7th and 8th Guards, were organizing in the spring-summer of 1945.
          Virtually all artillery brigades had their own Artillery Reconnaissance Battalions by the end of 1944 - giving them much enhanced capability in fire control. 11 new Artillery Divisions were formed in late 1944, with up to 7 brigades each- including the new 160mm mortars.
          At the end of 1944, a new shtat for the Guards Rifle Divisions gave each division an artillery brigade in place of its old artillery regiment - the brigade had one regiment each of 122m howitzers, 76mm cannon, and 160mm mortars, plus an SU-76 battalion. All the divisions in the 9th Guards Army were reorganized to the new tables by February 1945, and each Rifle Corps HQ in the army had its own Artillery Brigade and SU regiment, and the army had an SU-100-equipped brigade.
          From the end of 1943 the Soviet military had numbered about 11,500,000 men and women, a figure that did not appreciably change until the end of the war. That is not a declining military, given that all those people were better armed and organized and led in 1945 than they were in 1943. To repeat, if there was a potential problem, it was in continuing to support a military force of that size with an economy that was labor-poor due to the massive mobilization, and had been starved for resources since 1941. Historically, of course, the Red Army started demobilizing millions as soon as the war ended, to get the labor force back to rebuilding the country as soon as possible.

          Oh, and to correctly answer your signature question about the Maus, it could be knocked out by a single ISU-152-2, the 152mm cannon-armed self-propelled gun already built in prototype by the beginning of 1945, or by any Soviet tank mounting the 122mm cannon, since by the time the Maus was being built the Germans didn't have enough manganese left to manufacture armor plate - the Maus was simply a large, stationary metal target, about as dangerous and mobile as a foothill.

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          • #6
            In reference to to the op, what is your opinion about the Soviet army doing a surprise attack on the western allies?

            I remember scenes of Allied troops meeting and celebrating the defeat of the nazis.

            I think that the average Soviet soldier would not be too inspired to go to war with the guys who helped them win.

            While the outrage of the west would epic...

            So what do you think?

            The thread that dashy is talking about is here:

            http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=110962
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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            • #7
              Collapse?
              Well, the bottom of the manpower reserves had been reached, but the Red Army had reached it's maximum efficiency in 1945. Never before or since would it be such a professional and veteran force.
              Add a very high morale' and you have a 1st-class Army, and that goes for the air-support as well.
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #8
                In reference to to the op, what is your opinion about the Soviet army doing a surprise attack on the western allies?

                I remember scenes of Allied troops meeting and celebrating the defeat of the nazis.

                I think that the average Soviet soldier would not be too inspired to go to war with the guys who helped them win.

                While the outrage of the west would epic...

                So what do you think?

                The thread that dashy is talking about is here:

                http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=110962
                I had read that Stalin attacked Berlin especially to show the West that Red Army was not at brink of collapse. When we see the plans for operation "Unthinkable", it makes sense.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                • #9
                  Operation unthinkable was that.

                  I could just see Patton issuing the order to attack the soviets, then being fitted with a straitjacket...

                  I feel that the common soldier would tell the command to **** up a rope...

                  On both sides...

                  Credo quia absurdum.


                  Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Operation unthinkable was that.

                    I could just see Patton issuing the order to attack the soviets, then being fitted with a straitjacket...

                    I feel that the common soldier would tell the command to **** up a rope...

                    On both sides...

                    If soldiers were able to doing so, there will be no wars.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The history of the Second World War is filled with many events of monumental importance. The meeting of the forces of the United States and the Soviet Union along the Elbe River on the 25th of April 1945 was such a moment. This emotional joining of a few battle-weary soldiers at this historic river in a direct way symbolized the massive and mutual efforts of all the Allied Powers to achieve victory and secure a peaceful world.

                      In this same spirit of shared hope for a peaceful world, we now briefly recount the circumstances of this event as reported in U.S. historical military records.



                      http://www.usmlm.org/home/russians/wwii-torgau.htm
                      Credo quia absurdum.


                      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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