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  • Not all "UFOs" are Unidentified ...
    Witnesses Report Seeing Bright Light Across Southern California Sky


    "
    Viewers across California and parts of the West Coast reported seeing a strange, large flash of light across the Pacific Ocean Saturday night as the U.S. Navy was conducting a missile test.
    Many viewers called NBC San Diego, NBC Southern California and NBC Bay Area reporting a green and blue colored streak of bright light through the sky, reported as far south as Mexico and as far north as the Bay Area. Some viewers even reported seeing it in Nevada, Colorado and Arizona. "


    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
    Present Current Events are the Future's History

    Comment


    • A couple of things have always concerned me about UFOs and the whole nonsense...

      If UFOs exist, and the so called intelligent lifeforms within, WHY oh WHY are they not trooping down here to meet us all? As intelligent lifeforms ourselves, the one thing that distingguishes us from animals is our inquiring minds and our curiosity for things generally. ALL intelligent lifefoms would have this trait, no question about it, otherwise they would have no desire, motivation or reason to be this far from home.

      So why aren't they seeking to contact us, rather than keeping their distance? It does not make any logical sense at all.

      2/ Why is every shot of a UFO always grainy and difficult to identify correctly? Same for the fools that chase Bigfoot or the abominable Snowman. they are ALWAYS "just out of reach" or the photo or film footage is "inconclusive". Why I ask? Cause it's a load of old cobblers from the get go.

      Definative proof requires photographic or film evidence thats clear, sharp, and in relation to the surroundings. Nothing of what I've seen meets this criteria. Its always the same story, and always explained away with excuse after excuse to hide the fact that the darned things are a hoax to begin with.

      3/ The prospects for intelligent life acttually reaching here, even from the nearest star to us, are exceedingly slim, simply because its so far away. Anything intelligent would perish from old age befor it got out of it's own galaxy, and anything coming from our own milky way would suffer the same result, even if it is relatively 'next door'.

      And then we have this....as the number of life forms on our own earth, living as well as extinct, number in the billions if we include insects, why are we the only intelligent lifeforms that have evolved? surely, the mathematical probability of billions to one would mean that there should be two, or even three species of intelligent life here on earth.

      but there aren't. We are the only one.

      so, mathematically...

      Issac Asimov calculates that their are approx. 100,000 other planets capable of sustaining life in the galaxy. This is way less than the billions of life forms that are here. So, logically, our chance of life on another planet rest with these 100,000 other alone. and considering the maths from this planet, with one species out of billions becoming intelligent, it does not bode well for life anywhere else at all.

      My guess is that we are an abberration, a cosmic exception to the rule. Our planet teems with life, but it does not teem with INTELLIGENT life. Rather, intelligent life is so rare here as to be unknown, but for the last 80,000 years or so, or 30,000 if you will.

      And as Python says, "Think of how amazingly unlikely your own birth was." It's just mathmatically so improbable that the circumstances on another planet should combine to create another form of us, it's off the scale.

      Further, Nuclear Physasists are postulating that the changes in our bodies from our symian ancestors were touched off by our exposure to radiation, which, despite all the propaganda, our bodies can handle quite well enough in small doses. As the student physacist working in the Chernobyl Exclusion zone (bionerd64) says..."The body's ability to handle radiation is rather like drinking vodka. If a give you several liters of the stuff, and ask you to drink it all at once, the body is overwhelmed by the effects, and you can possibly expire. But if I drink vodka in small doses over a period of weeks, the body adjusts and survive." Bionerd has eaten apples from the exclusion zone, and made 60 video movies, all posted on You tube, from inside the Zone. She is self experimenting and making inroads into our modern knowlege of this phenomenon of radiation exposure. Shes one of my heros of Science.

      David, I hope that we sort this UFO nonsense out soon. It fine for movie makers, but it's turning our youth into undereducated space monster junkies, all convinced that aliens will one day solve all our problems for us, or that we can travel to their home planets without expiring from old age.

      I for one, am sick to death of hearing it, listening to the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of people, carried away by the latest movie, and convinced that because the Universe is "so big...Life "must" be "out there" Jim"

      Christopher

      Sorry moderators...I forgot to use the QUOTE function...oops...hope you dont mind...sorry.
      My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

      Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
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      Lincoln-Douglas Debates

      Comment


      • UFO's clearly exist. Even if they amount to less than 10%, and probably less than 5% of the sightings, there are credible ones that can't be ignored.

        It doesn't matter that the photos to date have been poor in almost all cases. That has as much to do with technology, opportunity, and timing as anything.

        Our hubris is that we think we have the answers, just as our ancestors thousands of years ago thought they did.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
          A couple of things have always concerned me about UFOs and the whole nonsense...

          If UFOs exist, and the so called intelligent lifeforms within, WHY oh WHY are they not trooping down here to meet us all? As intelligent lifeforms ourselves, the one thing that distingguishes us from animals is our inquiring minds and our curiosity for things generally. ALL intelligent lifefoms would have this trait, no question about it, otherwise they would have no desire, motivation or reason to be this far from home.

          So why aren't they seeking to contact us, rather than keeping their distance? It does not make any logical sense at all.

          2/ Why is every shot of a UFO always grainy and difficult to identify correctly? Same for the fools that chase Bigfoot or the abominable Snowman. they are ALWAYS "just out of reach" or the photo or film footage is "inconclusive". Why I ask? Cause it's a load of old cobblers from the get go.

          Definative proof requires photographic or film evidence thats clear, sharp, and in relation to the surroundings. Nothing of what I've seen meets this criteria. Its always the same story, and always explained away with excuse after excuse to hide the fact that the darned things are a hoax to begin with.

          3/ The prospects for intelligent life acttually reaching here, even from the nearest star to us, are exceedingly slim, simply because its so far away. Anything intelligent would perish from old age befor it got out of it's own galaxy, and anything coming from our own milky way would suffer the same result, even if it is relatively 'next door'.

          And then we have this....as the number of life forms on our own earth, living as well as extinct, number in the billions if we include insects, why are we the only intelligent lifeforms that have evolved? surely, the mathematical probability of billions to one would mean that there should be two, or even three species of intelligent life here on earth.

          but there aren't. We are the only one.

          so, mathematically...

          Issac Asimov calculates that their are approx. 100,000 other planets capable of sustaining life in the galaxy. This is way less than the billions of life forms that are here. So, logically, our chance of life on another planet rest with these 100,000 other alone. and considering the maths from this planet, with one species out of billions becoming intelligent, it does not bode well for life anywhere else at all.

          My guess is that we are an abberration, a cosmic exception to the rule. Our planet teems with life, but it does not teem with INTELLIGENT life. Rather, intelligent life is so rare here as to be unknown, but for the last 80,000 years or so, or 30,000 if you will.

          And as Python says, "Think of how amazingly unlikely your own birth was." It's just mathmatically so improbable that the circumstances on another planet should combine to create another form of us, it's off the scale.

          Further, Nuclear Physasists are postulating that the changes in our bodies from our symian ancestors were touched off by our exposure to radiation, which, despite all the propaganda, our bodies can handle quite well enough in small doses. As the student physacist working in the Chernobyl Exclusion zone (bionerd64) says..."The body's ability to handle radiation is rather like drinking vodka. If a give you several liters of the stuff, and ask you to drink it all at once, the body is overwhelmed by the effects, and you can possibly expire. But if I drink vodka in small doses over a period of weeks, the body adjusts and survive." Bionerd has eaten apples from the exclusion zone, and made 60 video movies, all posted on You tube, from inside the Zone. She is self experimenting and making inroads into our modern knowlege of this phenomenon of radiation exposure. Shes one of my heros of Science.

          David, I hope that we sort this UFO nonsense out soon. It fine for movie makers, but it's turning our youth into undereducated space monster junkies, all convinced that aliens will one day solve all our problems for us, or that we can travel to their home planets without expiring from old age.

          I for one, am sick to death of hearing it, listening to the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of people, carried away by the latest movie, and convinced that because the Universe is "so big...Life "must" be "out there" Jim"

          Christopher

          Sorry moderators...I forgot to use the QUOTE function...oops...hope you dont mind...sorry.
          Chris,

          Thank you for an interesting post, however none of the items~issues~concerns you present are NEW. They have been around since almost 70 years ago when Arnold made his June 1947 sighting that started this whole subject as one that captured the World's attention;
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arnold

          Furthermore, they have been addressed repeatedly in this thread and many others in this "Science" sub-forum as you will see if you go thru the back-pages of thread titles/subjects. Never-the-less, I'll engage in some "sword sharpening" dealing with them in the days to come as time allows while I engage in healing from my hip-replacement surgery and do assorted home and yard chores (such as today where sunny and dry weather have the yard and garden beckoning).

          You post comes across as a sort of "stream of consciousness"(stoned?) writing style, seeming to throw lots of mud on the wall to see what sticks. Your attempt to organize the themes present rooms for some tuning so here are the main topics that each require one(or more) lengthy posts to address. As mentioned, I'll try to deal with each in days to come as time allows.

          1) CONTACT - yeah, nay, or ... ???
          2) Ambiguous Evidence - photo, physical, and testimonial, etc.
          3) Interstellar Travel - time dilation as approach speed of light, generation ships, trans-dimensional~worm hole, etc.
          4) Life~Evolution~Sentience - Universal basic of elements (periodic table) as applied to varied planetary conditions, carbon as a basic meme, etc.
          5) Earth - aberration/anomaly or typical?
          6) Media Portrayal & Manipulations

          Always easier to ask quick and short questions than to provide the lengthy and detailed answers (though you could find much if spending some time to look around) so bear with, this is on my mind and I'll address soon.

          As one whom was born a few years after Arnold's sighting, and in the same neighborhood of the planet (literally my backdoor), and whom has spent 65 years growing up with an interest in this subject and seen it's transitions over the decades, I think I can provide you and others some "food for thought".
          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
          “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
          Present Current Events are the Future's History

          Comment


          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            UFO's clearly exist. Even if they amount to less than 10%, and probably less than 5% of the sightings, there are credible ones that can't be ignored.

            It doesn't matter that the photos to date have been poor in almost all cases. That has as much to do with technology, opportunity, and timing as anything.

            Our hubris is that we think we have the answers, just as our ancestors thousands of years ago thought they did.
            TA...

            You are an intelligent life-form. You have, at great expense and probably someloss to your king, reached the outer rim of you solar-system, and gone beyond to zoom across the parsecs of space-time, in a craft that probably carries your own scientific experiments, and numerous examples of the technological proficiency of your home planet.

            You reach this blue dot, which rapicly becomes a small mostly blue planet. It reminds you of your own expanse of water on your home planet. Further, the space around you occasionally provides you with a glimpse of another type of motion zero craft in orbit, hanging their as proof of the technological proficiency of the beings that inhabit the planet you are approaching.

            So, with all this in mind, you then simply zoom down t atmoshpere, making no attempt to land in the midst of the civilization you can see before you. You make no attempt at contact, and your only move toward that is to kidnap examples of the creatures of the planet, conduct tests, and then ,somehow, get every one of them to have no memory of their experience and contact with you?

            Why do I feel all this souds bloody implausable at a pinch, and downright nonsence at best?

            As intelligent beings, the one thing you WOULD do is contact and learn as quickly and as much as possible. Why spend the next 70 years simply observing, when you could learn so much more by simply asking.

            UFOs are a cosignment of geriatric shoe manufacturers. There is NO life on other planets, because the odds are too small. Out of 100,000 other planets that can sustain life, the odds are statistically against another intelligent lifeform. There is a far great probability of life on other planets being anything BUT intelligent.

            When the aliens are sitting in my loungeroom, drinking beverages and gossiping, I'll believe they exist. Until then, if Roswell is the best 'proof' we can provide, it's a laugh a minute.

            Too much 'Star Trek", and not enough Imperial proof.

            I'm surprised a man of your undoubted intellect can be sucked in by the whole palarb.

            If the darned things exist....where are they? Seeing and communicating with is beleiving. No proof, no existence, end of story.

            Christopher Claudius Drusus Nero
            My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

            Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
            GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
            Lincoln-Douglas Debates

            Comment


            • Reply to accusation of 'stoned'

              Chris,

              Thank you for an interesting post, however none of the items~issues~concerns you present are NEW. They have been around since almost 70 years ago when Arnold made his June 1947 sighting that started this whole subject as one that captured the World's attention;
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arnold
              Mr.Bock, (David, If I may)
              Whether the issues concerning me are NEW or not is not the point. The point is that this thread has palpably failed to address them. I have looked at evry post on this thread, and my original questions are far from addressed. So, point by belaboured point then....Arnolds 'world shaking' siting should not have been 'the first' at all. If these objects were anything but a modern product from our own era, we would have creditable sitings listed in the Domesday Book, or the Bayeaux Tapestry, or the Regia de Henricus. But we don't. And further, why is it that only MODERN people have claimed alien abduction? There is not one medieval person claiming same. Why? Because there were no science fiction stories or examples of things manufactured that were flying through the air to put it in the minds of people to gain attention by claiming abductions. It took science fiction to put the concept in everyone's mind, and then modern technology provided the template for the rest.

              And before you mention Mayan Pyramids or Erich von Daniken, lets just ask ourselves why it is that Viking Sagas have no record of anything like it either. For Egypt, these concepts were part of the religon of the high and mighty, concepts not shared by the common people, so no stories from them. The common egyptian wasn't meant to view much less understand tomb inscriptions, so only fantsasy stories come from the mighty rulers who believed such nonsense.

              Furthermore, they have been addressed repeatedly in this thread and many others in this "Science" sub-forum as you will see if you go thru the back-pages of thread titles/subjects. Never-the-less, I'll engage in some "sword sharpening" dealing with them in the days to come as time allows while I engage in healing from my hip-replacement surgery and do assorted home and yard chores (such as today where sunny and dry weather have the yard and garden beckoning).
              Sorry to hear about your surgery...get well soon!

              This thread has not addressed my questions at all. They were

              1/ Why have intelligent aliens never actually exposed themselves to us? The one feature of intelligent life is it's curiosity. Are you saying they travel all this way and spend all of their resources/money to sit here and observe for evermore? i find that stupid. If they are as intelligent as made out to be, the very first thing they would do is MEET AND GREET, then share information, and THEN observe to obtain data. We would do it that way, so why not suppose that they would as well?

              2/ UFO 'evidence' is ALWAYS inconclusive. Hard evidence requires conclusiveness as a matter of course. Anything else is speculation, and so far, thats all we have.

              3/ Intelligent life is RARE on this planet where life proliferates. Why should we not make the same assumption about the rest of the universe. We have no proof for anything else really. Plenty of proof to suppose that 99.999 recurring % of life is as unintelligent as an insect.



              You post comes across as a sort of "stream of consciousness"(stoned?) writing style, seeming to throw lots of mud on the wall to see what sticks. Your attempt to organize the themes present rooms for some tuning so here are the main topics that each require one(or more) lengthy posts to address. As mentioned, I'll try to deal with each in days to come as time allows.
              Becaude I KNOW you are worth more than such sentiments, I'll let this paragraph slide and pass it off as the effects from the painkilling drugs they must be pumping into you from your no doubt painful and long convelescence. I actually dont think any the worse of you as a person for holding such beliefs as you do. As Wilde paraphrased someone else..."I don't agree with you Sir, but by Gum, I'll defend your right to say it."

              1) CONTACT - yeah, nay, or ... ???
              2) Ambiguous Evidence - photo, physical, and testimonial, etc.
              3) Interstellar Travel - time dilation as approach speed of light, generation ships, trans-dimensional~worm hole, etc.
              4) Life~Evolution~Sentience - Universal basic of elements (periodic table) as applied to varied planetary conditions, carbon as a basic meme, etc.
              5) Earth - aberration/anomaly or typical?
              6) Media Portrayal & Manipulations
              1/ NAY...NEIN...NON...We should already have proof of contact long ago, by humans long gone from this mortal coil. the fact that all this nonsense appeared when the tech ideas manifested themselves in popular imaginations speaks volumes for contact as NAY.

              2/Once we get proper Empirical evidence, all these photos will be explained in due cours. Until then, such pointless speculative bull leaves me yawning. I'd rather study the reasons for the low total of english dead at agincourt. It far more relevant, topical, interesting, and proovable

              3/ Until we can accelerate to light speed or just below it, and navigate a path so that we dont hit anything the size of a small rock, we've got NO CHANCE. Too far away, and we die trying until we get fast enough or can pull some Frank Herbert style trick of moving from one point to another without moving anywhere at all.

              4/Life elseewhere is mostly going to be not on our level. Why are we the ONLY life form from billions of earth examples to achieve intelligence that enables us to even think about escaping this place when it dies?

              Always easier to ask quick and short questions than to provide the lengthy and detailed answers (though you could find much if spending some time to look around) so bear with, this is on my mind and I'll address soon.
              oh Ive looked around this thread alright. Lots of hearsay, sitings from people who cannot prove their sentiments Empirically, and accusations of un-necessary government 'cover-ups'. The existence of intelligent life other than us would be the BIGGEST story in human history, and impossible to cover up. So, to address the other points from above

              5/ I quote Asimov a lot when dealing with this. his book, "In The Beginning" stated quite clearly, "100,000 other eartyhs in the entire universe". Thats not a lot, compared to the number of actual planets. Microscopic probability of another earth eveolving anything like US.
              6/ Media. False information, false results. Victims of their own lack of professional investigation. modern journalists are show ponies with no background reading.

              As one whom was born a few years after Arnold's sighting, and in the same neighborhood of the planet (literally my backdoor), and whom has spent 65 years growing up with an interest in this subject and seen it's transitions over the decades, I think I can provide you and others some "food for thought".
              Food for thought eh? Not so far. Food for a born sceptic to feast on, more to the point. But, keep plugging away, and when we have some reproducable evidence in the Empirical manner, I'll be the first convert. Until then, it's really just a lot of people attracting attention, or selling books, or trying to get a research grant for something to be studied for the rest of their lives, so that they can guarantee a pension and a good retirement at the expense of the sensibilities of the majority. It's also nice to be called an 'expert' at something you need no academic credit for.

              Hope you get well soon, really I do. I'll be more than happy to contribute to your other posted threads, but I remain a conviced skeptic for this one, until Varg from the Planet Dweeb 4 appears in my living room, asking for a beverage and a cheese roll.

              Christopher
              Last edited by Drusus Nero; 12 Nov 15, 00:31.
              My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

              Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
              GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
              Lincoln-Douglas Debates

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                Chris,



                CONT'D ...

                until Varg from the Planet Dweeb 4 appears in my living room, asking for a beverage and a cheese roll.

                Christopher
                Let us hope that Varg, of Planet Dweeb 4, has received his/her/It's full range of immunizations for "Sol 3~Terra", and you 'Chris' have your full range of "Milky Way Immunizations" before the two of you share common environment and swap air, fluids, and other biological consumables ...

                You are on a "History Forum"(Message Board, BBS), specifically a "Military History Forum", implies a generalist knowledge base of sciences and math as well as leadership, command, control, communication basics, in order to grasp basic parameters of resources, abilities and limitations at your disposal, along with those of that whom/which you oppose ....

                Sun Tzu: " If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. "

                I consider this perhaps the most important, significant and meaningful sentence in all the body of Human Literature.

                If "One" KNOWS themself; abilities and limitations; AND, Can step out of their "Mindset" to know and understand that Which/Whom they Oppose, their Opponent's: Values, Skills, Abilities, Limitations, Perspectives, Goals, Agenda, Etc. ...

                ... then in any challenge, competition, conflict "One" should know what to expect and how to Plan~Act to achieve their desires~goals ...



                Try more being the "ArmChair General" and ask ...

                Why should I, a sentient and techologent# Being of a distant world, part of a Greater Galactic Community, wish to establish Open, Covert* CONTACT with a typical, backwater, contestable, primitive, barely civilized rock on the outer fringes~frontier of the Civilized Galaxy?


                # = For lack of a better term, a species beyond intelligent and sentient, but posses of knowledge/skills/technology to affect the micro-environment if not the macro-enviroment of their Home World/Planet.

                * = 'Open to all' as opposed to "Covert" where in the "CONTACT" is with the REAL Powers That Be ~ PTB.
                Last edited by G David Bock; 12 Nov 15, 17:06.
                TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                Present Current Events are the Future's History

                Comment


                • Anthropology in work ...

                  A team of four human anthropologists decides to study a 'tribe' of gorillas/chimps ...

                  Do they (the anthropologists), learn the simian language and start to ask questions ... ???

                  OR

                  Do they observe from a distance to see what they can learn from "covert" observations ???




                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                  “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                  Present Current Events are the Future's History

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                    Let us hope that Varg, of Planet Dweeb 4, has received his/her/It's full range of immunizations for "Sol 3~Terra", and you 'Chris' have your full range of "Milky Way Immunizations" before the two of you share common environment and swap air, fluids, and other biological consumables ...

                    You are on a "History Forum"(Message Board, BBS), specifically a "Military History Forum", implies a generalist knowledge base of sciences and math as well as leadership, command, control, communication basics, in order to grasp basic parameters of resources, abilities and limitations at your disposal, along with those of that whom/which you oppose ....

                    Sun Tzu: " If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. "

                    I consider this perhaps the most important, significant and meaningful sentence in all the body of Human Literature.

                    If "One" KNOWS themself; abilities and limitations; AND, Can step out of their "Mindset" to know and understand that Which/Whom they Oppose, their Opponent's: Values, Skills, Abilities, Limitations, Perspectives, Goals, Agenda, Etc. ...

                    ... then in any challenge, competition, conflict "One" should know what to expect and how to Plan~Act to achieve their desires~goals ...



                    Try more being the "ArmChair General" and ask ...

                    Why should I, a sentient and techologent# Being of a distant world, part of a Greater Galactic Community, wish to establish Open, Covert* CONTACT with a typical, backwater, contestable, primitive, barely civilized rock on the outer fringes~frontier of the Civilized Galaxy?


                    # = For lack of a better term, a species beyond intelligent and sentient, but posses of knowledge/skills/technology to affect the micro-environment if not the macro-enviroment of their Home World/Planet.

                    * = 'Open to all' as opposed to "Covert" where in the "CONTACT" is with the REAL Powers That Be ~ PTB.
                    Assorted references ...

                    For a "Science Fiction" reference going back over ONE HUNDRED years, consider H. G. Wells; "War of the Worlds"; the book or the several 'media" versions;
                    http://www.bing.com/search?q=H.+G.+W...b0627139292e82
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds

                    Obviously, pre-dating Arnold's Sightings, which some "detractors" claimed were inspired by "Sci-Fi" ...

                    BTW, you likely haven't picked up on numerous claims of "over-load" via the History Channel' frequent programs on "Ancient Aliens" ...
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Aliens

                    Just scrapping the top of the 'berg ....
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                    Present Current Events are the Future's History

                    Comment


                    • Greetings Earthlings! Why should "WE" grant you membership in ... ???

                      Greetings Earthlings!

                      Why should we grant you membership in the Greater Galactic Community?

                      As "Varg from the Planet Dweeb 4" I should advise you that "WE", "GGC" have had you under observation for several to scores of your "centuries" and our Technology is several to dozens of centuries beyond your abilities, so why should we lift "Quarantine" upon your World and allow admission into our more advanced and enlightened Community?

                      ???

                      ...

                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                      Present Current Events are the Future's History

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                        Let us hope that Varg, of Planet Dweeb 4, has received his/her/It's full range of immunizations for "Sol 3~Terra", and you 'Chris' have your full range of "Milky Way Immunizations" before the two of you share common environment and swap air, fluids, and other biological consumables ...

                        You are on a "History Forum"(Message Board, BBS), specifically a "Military History Forum", implies a generalist knowledge base of sciences and math as well as leadership, command, control, communication basics, in order to grasp basic parameters of resources, abilities and limitations at your disposal, along with those of that whom/which you oppose ....

                        Sun Tzu: " If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. "

                        I consider this perhaps the most important, significant and meaningful sentence in all the body of Human Literature.

                        If "One" KNOWS themself; abilities and limitations; AND, Can step out of their "Mindset" to know and understand that Which/Whom they Oppose, their Opponent's: Values, Skills, Abilities, Limitations, Perspectives, Goals, Agenda, Etc. ...

                        ... then in any challenge, competition, conflict "One" should know what to expect and how to Plan~Act to achieve their desires~goals ...



                        Try more being the "ArmChair General" and ask ...

                        Why should I, a sentient and techologent# Being of a distant world, part of a Greater Galactic Community, wish to establish Open, Covert* CONTACT with a typical, backwater, contestable, primitive, barely civilized rock on the outer fringes~frontier of the Civilized Galaxy?
                        [/I]
                        # = For lack of a better term, a species beyond intelligent and sentient, but posses of knowledge/skills/technology to affect the micro-environment if not the macro-enviroment of their Home World/Planet.

                        * = 'Open to all' as opposed to "Covert" where in the "CONTACT" is with the REAL Powers That Be ~ PTB.
                        Because it's THERE!
                        No intelligent life form would need any further reason.
                        My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                        Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                        GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                        Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                        • Drusus: my own theory has always been what I call the Botany Bay theory; that is, we we started as a penal colony for rejects from other civilizations.

                          When you consider the situation from that perspective, the lack of contact makes sense. We're in total lock down quarantine and the guards are not encouraged to mingle with the inmates, who have an unending history of murderous violence towards each other and who can be counted on to unite in murderous violence against outsiders, and we have thousands of nuclear weapons.

                          This theory of mine always accounts for all of the racial variations in somatotypes among H. sapiens - we aren't from here to begin with. Pygmies are from higher gravity worlds. Tall species like the Watusi's are from low gravity worlds. Yellow skin and epicanthal folds are suitable for somewhere else, and while you're wondering how crazy I am keep this in mind: if we evolved here, why is our sun still dangerous to us after all of the millions of years? And why do black people get just as sunburned as white people if they evolved with more melanin to counter the effects? And why are so many variations found along the equator of our world, where conditions are mostly pretty equal throughout?

                          And where and how exactly did Cro Magnon Man appear in the first place?

                          We are, however, under observation by remotely operated sensors to insure that we never actually boil over and create a threat to the greater populace elsewhere, and that if we do we will only kill off ourselves.

                          Think of us as the ultimate Alcatraz coupled with the longest running (maybe) genetic experiement in real time using real hominids. After all, where would you put the hardcore incurables? Speaking galactically, a minor planet located far out on the end of one of the galaxy's spiral arms next to the Great Rift and so remote that no other viable planets are anywhere within traveling range of the inhabitants would be the perfect choice. And here we are.

                          And suppose that our violence is actually useful to the observers. We always talk about taking advantage of alien technology, but we know for a fact that war drives lethal inventions, so if you're a peaceful groups of races living elsewhere in the galaxy, and have been for thousands of years, who invents your weapons? If it were me, I'd watch what the crazies on Sol III are doing, because they invent ever more sophisticated killing methods constantly just to keep up with each other.

                          Imagine what we would have been like had we evolved in the dense galactic center, which, given the probable number of viable planets in such a crowded location makes the odds of us "just happening" to appear way out here at an incredibly sparse location on the galactic Rim pretty much mathematically a non-starter.

                          I know everybody will have a good laugh at Mountain Man's latest psychotic episode, but unpack your Occam's Razor and take a good look. One theory accounts for all of it, including the universally held legends of "gods from the stars".


                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • My view on this is different from that. I suspect that any civilization capable of interstellar travel has to also be long lived and capable of living in space. Humanity is neither. Any civilization capable of this also would have to be technologically advanced beyond where we are today.

                            So, the quickest path to that happening is technological evolution but not the one we see in almost all science fiction.

                            Let me start with why no contact. There are several plausible scenarios to that, some already addressed. But, I consider the most likely one is we're not there yet. That is, any interstellar civilization knows we're not worth more than occasional observation at the point we've reached. It is a variant of proving God exists.
                            If God (any version you want) reveals him / her / itself to humanity there is no longer any room for free will on the subject. God exists and to deny that is to deny reality. That would radically alter religion and many other social aspects of human life.
                            It would be no different for an advanced civilization. They show up and give us proof of their existence, for good or bad, and the goal posts move radically. So, you leave humanity alone, with the possible occasional nudge in the "right" direction. Sort of the opening of the movie 2001, A Space Odyssey.

                            As it stands now, humanity has had the means to push radio signals into space for less than 100 years. What if radio signals were passť in under 200, replaced by something else? That would mean that detecting another civilization at the point where they have radio and we're listening is a relative blink of the eye in terms of the age of the universe. There might have been some somewhere in our past that are no long gone never to return. Who knows? But that would explain why we haven't found any to date. We'd have to win the proverbial universal lottery to hear some from another civilization.

                            Next, we're into the Electronics Revolution by less than a century and it is likely before another one passes there will be intelligent electronic devices that have surpassed us in intellect and ability. That may not doom humanity to extinction but it certainly argues that we will have been left behind evolutionarily. In that sense, I suspect that is why no Aliens. Those civilizations that have managed space travel and interstellar travel have evolved beyond organic beings and see us as we might view the dinosaurs. An evolutionary ancestor on the brink of being surpassed by something else.

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                            • OK...from now on in this thread, I will address my comments not only to the intelligent majority, but also the interstellar intellects that are, no doubt, watching this very post as we type.

                              Dear Aliens and others....

                              I come to bury your existence not to praise it. The evil that humans do lives long after them, so shall it be with our Caesars.

                              Note to the humans...

                              You guys/gals still haven't answered my most burning question, namely,

                              If intelligent life is so RARE here on earth, where lifeforms are commonplace and prolific, why then, with this same data in mind, should we not suppose that intelligent life in the reat of the universe is also similarly RARE, and probably unknown?

                              Why, oh why, if intelligent life is so common in the universe, are we the ONLY lifeform on this planet with intelligence as we know it? Why haven't TWO intelligent lifeforms evolved here?

                              Every form of homosapiens sapiens can procreate with every other form of homosapiens sapiens. Transport one of our newborns back 30,000 years and leave it there, and the humans of the day will adopt it as one of their own, because our differences are so small.

                              Transpose a human from 30,000 years ago to the present and he/she could procreate with us, producing others of our species indistinguishable from modern homosapiens.

                              So, why is there not at least one other intelligent lifeform that is roughly on our intellectual level and cannot procreate with our species. The odds of probability say there should be at least one OTHER form here, when you consider the billions of other life forms present.

                              until those basic questions can be answered, its a hoax and speculation all wrapped into one.

                              Claudius Drusus Nero
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                              • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                                You guys/gals still haven't answered my most burning question, namely,

                                If intelligent life is so RARE here on earth, where lifeforms are commonplace and prolific, why then, with this same data in mind, should we not suppose that intelligent life in the reat of the universe is also similarly RARE, and probably unknown?
                                Humans have suppressed all other forms of intelligent life once we got in a position to do so, the most recent example being the Neanderthals. In other words, "this town ain't big enuff for the two of us!" With more than one habitable planet presumably containing intelligent life, the distances between them would allow for civilizations to arise independent of one another before the technological level was reached for them to make contact.
                                Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

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