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Parallel Universes - Yeh or Nay

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  • #16
    Hmmmm

    I am convinced that there are Twelve Dimensions -
    Ever since I read an old Space Fiction tale called "Men of the Ten Books", I think - back in the late 50's / early 60's

    Oytherwise - in my take on Cosmology - Each Universe in the Cosmos
    has many alternative parallal Timelines, side by side - which for convenience we can call "Probabilities", except they actually ALL exist.

    For this model -
    Time is as three-dimensional as Space - and the "Probabilities" occupy parallel longitudinal lines on a Globe, which is
    the Universe.
    The Universe started or was born at, say "the south pole" of this globe - where an infinite number of possibiliities fanned-out in a circle.
    Half-way through its temporal "life" it will reach its maxium "size" and maximum number of "probabilities".
    At its end or death - all of the "probabilities" will collide in impact, when each and every one will be cancelled by one of opposite temporal velocity, where all matter in one "probability" will be efectively anti-matter to the matter in the opposite "probability.
    This final end-point will be the death-point instance of the Universe - BUT also the birth-point instance of the Universe starting again.
    This has been going on, over and over again for a truly infinite series of
    events - and will continue for a truly infitie series of events.

    Outside of and beyond this Universe - a truly infinite number of other Universes will also be following their own endless cycles of birth - growth - death / birth, forever. These are stacked "side by side" in time - in anr an infiinite number in both directions - and also stacked "side by side" at right angles in time - in an infinite number in both directions.

    Although it has no bearing whatsoever on our lives here on Earth - in any way whatsoever.
    This is truly what I believe about Universes, the Cosmos, and Parallels.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    I am not really worried very much about who agrees or disagrees -
    these kinds of theoretical discussions are in the same sort of realm of un-provables as most religious beliefs.
    Form my own reasons, and what seems Logical to me - these are what I believe.
    G.M. - Sci Fi Game - the "Krissyverse"
    Darius Jarvinger - Prime Minister of The Phoenix Confederation
    Kris Martins - President of Attican Republic
    Kaar Kristoff - Minister of Interior of The Phoenix Confederation

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
      “There is no one reality. Each of us lives in a separate universe. That's not speaking metaphorically. This is the hypothesis of the stark nature of reality suggested by recent developments in quantum physics. Reality in a dynamic universe is non-objective. Consciousness is the only reality.” Professor M. R. Franks



      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
      http://science.howstuffworks.com/parallel-universe.htm

      Do parallel universes exist?

      Technically speaking, over 6 billion parallel unverses exist on this planet right now, one for each individual human being. Or existence is unique to each of us, and perceived through our own point of view; therefore, no other person shares exactly the same existence.

      If, however, you are asking about parallel universes such as the concept behind Fringe, I would say it's perhaps possible, but highly unlikely. Imagine that every single thing you do or don;t do becomes a nexus point for an alternate universe - there simply wouldn't be room for all of them.

      Our lives are a constant stream of choices from the moment we awake 'til the moment we fall asleep - thousands and thousands of them per day multiplied by 6 billion-plus people x the history of the planet.

      Ob the other hand, I feel more strongly about the possibility of universes that might exist separately on the other side of our fabric of space/time - ie., through the wormhole - but I don't believe an alternate, parallel universe would be anything at all like ours. It might, for example, be made up entirely of anti-matter, as a mirror of our own posi-matter make-up. Perhaps this constant explosive interaction is the fuel that powers the universe we know into constantly creating new stars. Pwerhaps a nove occurs when a dwarf becomes so dense it bursts thorugh the barrier and the two matters collide, releasing incalcuable energy that can sear it's way through milions ofl ight years, destrying everything it touches.

      I don't know, but I prefer to believe in the possibilities.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #18
        Actually, if there was only "one" universe things would be completely predictable and probability wouldn't exist.

        For example, consider a pair of dice at a craps table. When you throw the dice, there is some result based on a probability distribution function that the result will be from 2 to 12. However, the probability is not equal for any given result, and the most likely value is a 7 with the least like as a 2 or 12.

        So, you throw the dice and some number appears. Well, there are 10 possible universes that "exist" before you throw the dice, each with a different result, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 (each is a sheet of paper in the above diagram). However, you only "experience" one of those possible universes but what is the difference between your universe and the other 9 you didn't experience? NOTHING! Only the fact that you perceived that particular universe.

        It's like driving down the highway to grandma's place. Just because you only took one possible road/path to grandma's, doesn't mean the other possible paths don't exist equally. You just didn't experience those other paths because of the probability distribution function. As a human you will generally take the shortest and or fastest path whenever possible. Just like the dice will generally take the most probable path of "7" because it's the easiest and most likely.

        When you find "one" universe, you will make a lot of money in Vegas. In the mean time, all possibilities exist, even if their probability of "realization" are different. Each possibility is another "universe" in the multiverse theory.

        No one can predict the future because there are so many universes to choose from...
        Battles are dangerous affairs... Wang Hsi

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
          Actually, if there was only "one" universe things would be completely predictable and probability wouldn't exist.

          For example, consider a pair of dice at a craps table. When you throw the dice, there is some result based on a probability distribution function that the result will be from 2 to 12. However, the probability is not equal for any given result, and the most likely value is a 7 with the least like as a 2 or 12.

          So, you throw the dice and some number appears. Well, there are 10 possible universes that "exist" before you throw the dice, each with a different result, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 (each is a sheet of paper in the above diagram). However, you only "experience" one of those possible universes but what is the difference between your universe and the other 9 you didn't experience? NOTHING! Only the fact that you perceived that particular universe.

          It's like driving down the highway to grandma's place. Just because you only took one possible road/path to grandma's, doesn't mean the other possible paths don't exist equally. You just didn't experience those other paths because of the probability distribution function. As a human you will generally take the shortest and or fastest path whenever possible. Just like the dice will generally take the most probable path of "7" because it's the easiest and most likely.

          When you find "one" universe, you will make a lot of money in Vegas. In the mean time, all possibilities exist, even if their probability of "realization" are different. Each possibility is another "universe" in the multiverse theory.

          No one can predict the future because there are so many universes to choose from...
          No one can predict the future because it hasn't happened yet. Of course, certain occurrences are pretty cut and dried - if you look up and see a twenty ton boulder falling on your head, you can predict the outcome with remarkable accuracy!

          As for rolling dice, there are far too many physical variables involved in that simple act to allow and prediction at all beyond statistical averages.

          Given the complexity and variability of human minds and their sensitivity to different and unpredictable emotional responses even to identical events, we have over six billion people generating endless variables every second of every day, right here on this world alone, and that's more than we can handle as it is.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #20
            Multiple dimensions do not automatically presume them to be parallel.

            By definition of a multiverse, a creator can both be outside of the time and space of creation and the creator. Likewise the presumption of an omnipotent creator of everything allows for the control over all aspects including time and space while not requiring confinement to such.

            Using observation alone means that neither multiple dimesnions nor an infinite creator would be observable and thus mechinistically irrelevant.

            Only how we as beings interract with our environment can be onserved or measured.
            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
            George Mason
            Co-author of the Second Amendment
            during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

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            • #21
              If there was a parallel universe I wouldn't have been stupid and gotten married when I was 17,had a son when I was 18. Or had 4 before I was 24. And divorced before 25. And stupidly remarried at 30. If there is I would have married only the one I've been married to the last 8 years.
              This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Hmmmm - Not So Simple

                Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
                If there was a parallel universe I wouldn't have been stupid and gotten married when I was 17,had a son when I was 18. Or had 4 before I was 24. And divorced before 25. And stupidly remarried at 30. If there is I would have married only the one I've been married to the last 8 years.
                Oh Yes You Would have.

                In one Parallel Universe you did all of those things - in another you married the right one first time - in another you married a Horrible person, and had an awful time - in another you married one who murdered you - in another you never married, and "played the field", having a great time - in another you were never married and lived a lonely life - in another you married at 17, and never had any kids - in another you had a sex-change operation - in another you died of an incurable illness at 16 - and so on.

                As I have said - a VERY LARGE Number of Parallel Universes, billions of them - in which you could have done many different things. You are in a lot of them - but each one of you only sees one Universe, and knows nothing of the others.

                Then there are the Parallel Universes in which you don't exist - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes in which Germany won the Second World War - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where the Confederates won the American Civil War - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where lots of humans were wiped-out by a Nuclear War in the 1960's - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where humans never evolved - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where life never evolved on Earth - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where humans are slaves of an Alien Species - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where humans have been helped by a friendly Alien Species, or more than one - billions of them.
                There are the Parallel Universes where we discovered Time Travel - gets messy - coz Time Travel machines cannot be "steered", they drift from Parallel Universe to Parallel Universe - both going and coming. Sometimes you never get back to the one you left.

                I have thought about all of this for years, and had already come to my own conclusions - but a great Writer, Larry Niven put a lot of it into a Sci-Fi short story, including Time Travel - "All The Myriad Ways".
                That comes close to including most of my own viewpoints on Parallel Universes.
                His Time Travellers went back in time - and found themselves in Worlds where things had gone differently, an Earth completely ravaged by Nuclear War, an Earth where history had gone differently, different versions of Earth with strange, almost alien artifacts and inventions - but they always had a problem getting back.
                The "beacon" guiding them back was never a single source - but a blur, so they could never get back to EXACTLY the Earth they had left, things had changed and produced a number of Parallel Universes whilst they were gone.
                Some could not take the "culture shock" of both subtle and major changes, and committed suicide - after all for every one who chose to suicide, an alternative of themselves had not chosen to suicide.

                You could also try "Wrong Way Street" by Larry Niven - where a human expedition finds an abandoned alien Spaceship on Mars, which is also a Time Machine - and after playing with the Spaceship and causing some accidental damage in the recent past - the "hero" tries to go back into the past again and put things right.

                Just explaining my viewpoints.

                Best Wishes to All

                P.S. - Somewhere, in a Parallel Universe, there is a me who made a success of their life.
                However, it does not help me much here.
                Last edited by Karakris; 16 Mar 11, 07:09.
                G.M. - Sci Fi Game - the "Krissyverse"
                Darius Jarvinger - Prime Minister of The Phoenix Confederation
                Kris Martins - President of Attican Republic
                Kaar Kristoff - Minister of Interior of The Phoenix Confederation

                Comment


                • #23
                  In a parallel universe there is a me who actually understands the concepts discussed in this thread.
                  Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                  That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    But is there an alternate universe in which you actually care?
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      All Things are possible - in Parallel Universes

                      Still - you have all been so unlucky -

                      you got into the one where I Posted so much confusing stuff about Parallel Universes on ACG.

                      Pity you cnanot switch to the one where I never even joined ACG - or where I did not Post - or failing that, where none of you Guys Joined.



                      Ah well - NVM
                      In the one where I am a Multi-Millonaire I would probably be too busy to be Posting here.
                      G.M. - Sci Fi Game - the "Krissyverse"
                      Darius Jarvinger - Prime Minister of The Phoenix Confederation
                      Kris Martins - President of Attican Republic
                      Kaar Kristoff - Minister of Interior of The Phoenix Confederation

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Or a parallel universe where I killed wife #2 not that I was murdered. Lets turn that around.
                        This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thank God the judge saw things from my perspective and I got those two beautiful children from that union. I can't imagine how they turned out so perfect.
                          This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Sounds Good

                            Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
                            Or a parallel universe where I killed wife #2 not that I was murdered. Lets turn that around.
                            The thing is - BOTH will exist - with a You in each.
                            The better one will be where you did that Deed, And GOT AWAY WITH IT ( no one ever suspected ) - And you never felt any guilt over it.
                            THAT Parallel Universe will exist - not many of them, but including all possibilities, quite a few.

                            Sounds okay with me

                            BTW - Glad you had some great Kids.

                            There will be a Parallel Universe ( several ) where I did the same, with my First Wife - but I would be a different kind of person
                            There will even be a Parallel Universe ( several ) where I did the same, with my Second Wife - but I would still be a different kind of person

                            In both of those kinds of Universes ( several of them ) - I may have never met my Dear Lady, Karen - and not set-up home with her.
                            I would then not have had the 25 years of happy times I have had with Dear Karen, so far.

                            Still - I AM in this one - and so Happy with Karen
                            G.M. - Sci Fi Game - the "Krissyverse"
                            Darius Jarvinger - Prime Minister of The Phoenix Confederation
                            Kris Martins - President of Attican Republic
                            Kaar Kristoff - Minister of Interior of The Phoenix Confederation

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                              Mathematically speaking, there are an infinite number of dimensions.

                              Physical evidence only exists for four dimensions: Three spatial and one temporal.
                              One question though; isn't most evidence in theoretical physics mathematical in nature (something that quite ironically; a chemist my biologist uncle in law dislikes despite chemistry being a highly math intensive field) because I remember an astrophysicist (one who was rather critical of superstring and m-theory that I met on a science forum) telling me that the existence of tachyons was nowhere near as certain as the existence of higgs bosons since the currently accepted mathematical models did not require their existence. And that in theoretical physics, since physical observation requires expensive and complicated devices, it is imperative to see that the math allows for it's existence before checking for physical evidence. While I find theoretical physics distressingly confusing (the math makes even my economically geared mind cringe in fear and many of the ideas that get tossed around in that field are quite frankly beyond me) that fact is one thing I do know for certain about the field.

                              And aren't dimensions and universes different things? I remember said astrophysicist being rather unhappy whenever anyone used the term dimension to refer to a universe. Of course; he was also rather unhappy when people referred to time as the physical fourth dimension.
                              Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
                              But who's to judge the right from wrong.
                              When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
                              That violence breeds violence.
                              But in the end it has to be this way.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Karakris View Post
                                Still - you have all been so unlucky -

                                you got into the one where I Posted so much confusing stuff about Parallel Universes on ACG.

                                Pity you cnanot switch to the one where I never even joined ACG - or where I did not Post - or failing that, where none of you Guys Joined.



                                Ah well - NVM
                                In the one where I am a Multi-Millonaire I would probably be too busy to be Posting here.
                                Ah...but we CAN switch to one where you don't even exist....
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                                Comment

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