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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how are we going to charge and recharge all of those batteries?
    You probably won't,

    again, most people don't live on ranches, not here anyway, what source of energy you use is, and will be ever more, dependent on where you are and what you want to do...

    Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

      You probably won't,

      again, most people don't live on ranches, not here anyway, what source of energy you use is, and will be ever more, dependent on where you are and what you want to do...
      I often feel like the early automobile manufacturers probably faced questions like this: "What good is this thing? Where do we get gas? There's no roads. Horses can just graze".

      Since none of us are experts on power generation we're just speculating. It's going to be a combination of renewables and fossil fuels. We don't need to eliminate fossil fuels, we just need to be carbon neutral.

      So, now humanity has a budget. I'm not sure if anyone cares how we spend the budget, but we have to stick to the budget. If you want/need fossil fuels somewhere, then you need to use renewables in other areas. This is why advances such as improved battery technology for solar/wind generation, or the recent prototype of an electrically driven steel microfoundry, or the recent test flight of an electric commuter plane on Vancouver Island, or the work on molten-chloride nuclear reactors are so exciting: They provide options for the future.

      All of this is slightly off-topic. I guess you can keep coal, if you want, but is a coal-fired power generation plant really where you want to spend your carbon budget? Given the decline of coal production in the US, I believe the answer is going to be: No.

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      • #18
        the trouble with solar or wind is what to do when it is cloudy or there is now wind. well a canadian at mit has come up with a new super battery .




        Paul Hunter · CBC News · Posted: Dec 14, 2018 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: December 14, 2018Canadian Don Sadoway, a professor of materials chemistry at MIT, has been lauded for his invention of a large-scale battery that's reliable, safe and lasts a long time. (Jean-François Benoît/CBC)
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        He's become a kind of rock star in a field where most people spend their careers working far from the limelight.

        Canadian Don Sadoway, a professor of materials chemistry at MIT, has captured the attention of the world with his quest to build a better battery.
        In the hallway outside his office, high-profile accolades abound.

        Pinned to a bulletin board is a shout-out from Bill Gates.

        A Time magazine cover story names him one of the 100 most influential people on the planet. Sadoway’s battery uses liquid metals and molten salt. (Paul Hunter/CBC)
        There are freeze-frames from Sadoway's appearance on U.S. late-night news satire show The Colbert Report in 2012.

        Because Sadoway's invention, now in the final stages of development, isn't just any battery.

        It's powerful enough to provide electricity for a whole neighbourhood and it can easily be scaled up into something even bigger and more powerful.
        As the world presses ahead toward using more clean energy, such a battery is seen as critical to widespread adoption of wind and solar power generation.

        "This is not in the would-be-nice category, this is in the must-have category," says the Toronto-born Sadoway. Use it or lose it

        Sadoway tackled a problem that has bedevilled battery experts for generations.

        As he puts it: "You have to be able to draw electricity from the sun even when the sun doesn't shine. And if you can't do that, then solar power is not the answer."

        Likewise, accessing wind energy on a still day.

        Generally speaking, electricity must be used as soon as it is produced, be it from coal-fired power plants or wind turbines.







        Use it or lose it.


        https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/d...tion-1.4945615

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        • #19
          watch this

          blob:https://embed.ted.com/e69d01a5-4866-...0-00059006a6ab

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

            Most people don't live in Montana though

            These, for example, even bypass coal layers when they find them accidentally.

            https://www.swecobelgium.be/en/our-o...-heat-network/

            Most likely the "solution" will be a mix of all available technologies, with the most economical or politically expedient chosen for a particular situation.



            At any time, somewhere, a coal stove may still be the best option, in Montana for example, but presumably in most place it won't ….
            good point...https://edmontonjournal.com/business...u-cant-beat-it
            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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            • #21
              One alternative that can use off the shelf tech in Australia is pumped hydro, with some using solar farms to top up the dams during the day. Last time I checked there was potentially 20,000 locations where we can build them but in reality we only need around 20.
              One issue coal has is that its stuck with a base load, thus it can find itself paying customers to actually use their power if supply is over abundant. It can’t adapt to the demands of the grid.
              Last edited by Achtung Baby; 13 Dec 19, 18:11.
              "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
              Ernest Hemingway.

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              • #22
                Also, Australia should step up and build nuclear power plants.
                "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                Ernest Hemingway.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DingBat View Post
                  I often feel like the early automobile manufacturers probably faced questions like this: "What good is this thing? Where do we get gas? There's no roads. Horses can just graze".
                  There was a thread here not long ago about early British steam warships, they were designed as "hybrids" apparently, people didn't trust this new propulsion system and wanted a "backup" - so they were fitted to be sailing ships as well.

                  I suspect we live in a similar age, lots of comparable, developing and aging technology, time will tell what will live on and what not, it's not a religion is it
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                  • #24
                    I just recently read that China is in the process of building more new coal power stations than currently exist in Europe - about 150 GW of capacitys worth.

                    And that's just new capacity.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                      There was a thread here not long ago about early British steam warships, they were designed as "hybrids" apparently, people didn't trust this new propulsion system and wanted a "backup" - so they were fitted to be sailing ships as well.

                      I suspect we live in a similar age, lots of comparable, developing and aging technology, time will tell what will live on and what not, it's not a religion is it
                      Check out Panther's recent poll which included early ironclads; those intended for blue water ops. all had masts and sails. Coal power was hugely inefficient, impacting long traverses, while wind power was free, and coal couldn't be had just anywhere. The usefulness of turrets was limited where masts and rigging were required, so they were shelved until engines became more efficient; hull mounted armament still ruled until then.
                      "I am Groot"
                      - Groot

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                      • #26
                        A recent story indicating that India is drastically reducing their use of coal for power generation. One of the reasons given for the shift is a major drop in the cost per kwh of solar power generation options. Assuming they actually deliver on the promise, India might over-deliver on its climate goals. The changes are expected to create a significant number of jobs and attract a lot of new investment.

                        https://thebulletin.org/2019/12/good...ewable-energy/
                        https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-environment/
                        https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a8921961.html

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                        • #27
                          And in the end we follow the money...

                          https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...power/11814436
                          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                          Ernest Hemingway.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                            And in the end we follow the money...

                            https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...power/11814436
                            Yup.

                            Also, if you want a reliable weathervane for truth, look to insurance companies. Those guys are ruled by facts and probabilities. Emotions, patriotism, wishful thinking: Bah! If the math don't work, they don't insure. Anyway, in Canada, they're starting to make noises about ceasing to insure houses in "at risk areas", meaning flood plains.

                            How anyone can be bullish on coal in the face of future climate change remediation action is beyond me.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                              Also, Australia should step up and build nuclear power plants.
                              Absolutely ( We should live so long !)
                              "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                              Samuel Johnson.

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                              • #30
                                No surprise here, but interesting all the same

                                From the National Post:

                                Coal, the most polluting fossil fuel, is still the world's favourite for electricity generation
                                Global coal consumption is likely to rise over the coming years, driven by demand in India, China and Southeast Asia

                                Coal consumption is set to rise in the coming years as growing demand for electricity in developing countries outpaces a shift to cleaner sources of electricity in industrialized nations.

                                While use of the most polluting fossil fuel had a historic dip in 2019, the International Energy Agency anticipates steady increases in the next five years. That means the world will face a significant challenge in meeting pledges to reduce greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming.

                                “There are few signs of change,” the agency wrote in its annual coal report released in Paris on Tuesday. “Despite all the policy changes and announcements, our forecast is very similar to those we have made over the past few years.”

                                While this year is on track for biggest decline ever for coal power, that’s mostly due to high growth in hydroelectricity and relatively low electricity demand in India and China, said Carlos Fernandez Alvarez, senior energy analyst at the Paris-based IEA.

                                Despite the drop, global coal consumption is likely to rise over the coming years, driven by demand in India, China and Southeast Asia. Power generation from coal rose almost 2% in 2018 to reach an all-time high, remaining the world’s largest source of electricity.

                                The steady outlook for coal comes in spite of waning demand in industrialized nations. Europe has set a goal of zeroing out carbon pollution by the middle of the century, which would mean drastic reductions for coal. In the U.S., competition from natural gas has cut into demand for coal, despite President Donald Trump’s vows to revive the industry.

                                The story is different in Asia, which will more than make up for reductions elsewhere. India, with a population of more than 1.3 billion, will see coal generation increase by 4.6% a year through 2024 to help power its growing economy. In Southeast Asia coal demand will grow more than 5% annually. China, which accounts for almost half the world’s consumption, will also have modest growth with usage peaking in 2022.


                                “How we address this issue in Asia is critical for the long-term success of any global efforts to reduce emissions,” Fatih Birol, the IEA’s executive director, wrote in a foreword to the report.

                                Any new coal plants added to meet the growing power demand in these countries will likely be in use for decades. Even as China’s coal consumption slows and then declines after 2022, emissions from the fuel would need to rapidly decline in order to meet climate targets.

                                Under current policies, the world is set to warm almost 3 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) by the end of the century. That’s double the rate scientists say is needed to constrain the worst impacts of climate change. To prevent those increases, it would be necessary to use technology that captures and stores carbon as it’s emitted from power plants, the IEA said. While the technology is expensive and untested at scale. But with coal here to stay, it may be the only option to reduce emissions.



                                https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...ity-generation
                                "I am Groot"
                                - Groot

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