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  • The demise of coal power.

    Been reading a few articles in which all concluding that electricity demands from coal power has been dropping across the developed countries, and coal power stations are now becoming economically unviable to invest in. Is this true?
    I know that here in Oz the coal power stations struggle in the heat, gas generation as well. The continuing increase in average temperatures isn't helping these plants trying to maintain optimum efficiency, thus causing them to trip, or fail altogether during peak demands. Back in 2017 14% of Australia's coal and gas generators failed in peak demand. Analysts are now realising that the sudden increase in people investing in solar panels has made an impact on the grid. Not only do they reduce peak demand, they can delay it... which has been seen during heatwaves.
    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

  • #2
    Coal works perfectly well here in America, even in states that hit 120 degrees in the summer.

    If solar power users are interfering with the delivery of electricity, then your system isn't working properly. Someone owes you a detailed explanation.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #3
      I once worked at a Power Station that was converting from Oil to Coal. The limiting factor was the space required to dispose of the ash produced. The coal was from Wyoming (low Sulphur). They announced the plant would have space for 20 or so years of disposal. When that benchmark came, I worked out there in a maintenance turnaround. They may never run out of storage space because they figured out a way to dispose of the ash! They mixed it with concrete! That was at the thirty year mile marker! It is now past the forty year mark..

      As long as they can dig cheap, low Sulphur coal they will use it.

      Louisiana does produce coal but it is not low Sulphur. There is a clause that allows the use of coal above the federal guidelines if it is used within the state it is mined in. In Louisiana, this happens near the Battle Park at Mansfield! They have actually began to dig in the area of the Battle. They never bought out all the land there. Imagine if you will a power plant at Gettysburg or Antietam belching black smoke!

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Coal works perfectly well here in America, even in states that hit 120 degrees in the summer.

        If solar power users are interfering with the delivery of electricity, then your system isn't working properly. Someone owes you a detailed explanation.
        You're not supposed to stoke up your coal furnace when it is 120 degrees Fahrenheit...
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          I once worked at a Power Station that was converting from Oil to Coal. The limiting factor was the space required to dispose of the ash produced. The coal was from Wyoming (low Sulphur). They announced the plant would have space for 20 or so years of disposal. When that benchmark came, I worked out there in a maintenance turnaround. They may never run out of storage space because they figured out a way to dispose of the ash! They mixed it with concrete! That was at the thirty year mile marker! It is now past the forty year mark..

          As long as they can dig cheap, low Sulphur coal they will use it.

          Louisiana does produce coal but it is not low Sulphur. There is a clause that allows the use of coal above the federal guidelines if it is used within the state it is mined in. In Louisiana, this happens near the Battle Park at Mansfield! They have actually began to dig in the area of the Battle. They never bought out all the land there. Imagine if you will a power plant at Gettysburg or Antietam belching black smoke!

          Pruitt
          I was reading that Arizona’s 2.25-GW Navajo Generating Station and Pennsylvania’s 2.7-GW Bruce Mansfield unit are closing down... with the later shutting down two years early.
          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

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          • #6
            Coal consumption in the US is almost completely tied to power generation. According to the governments own statistics, coal's share of that power generation has dropped steadily over the past decade and is expected to fall to 22% in 2020. Murray Energy Corp, one of the larger coal producers in the US just filed for bankruptcy lately.

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            • #7
              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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              • #8
                I sure hope you live through the winter after. There is no adequate replacement system available t this time., so that icicle hanging in front of you is the frozen remains of your manhood.

                Good luck with that.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #9
                  Ontario eliminated it's last coal fired generation plant in 2014. Coal fired plants were 25% of total capacity in 2007. The federal government has instituted a plan to completely eliminate coal across the country in the next decade.

                  Last I heard, Canada can get kinda cold at times.

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                  • #10
                    I heard there is enough coal underground in North America to last hundreds of years. There must be a way to burn it without pollution or very little pollution.
                    "Advances in technology tend to overwhelm me."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DingBat View Post
                      Ontario eliminated it's last coal fired generation plant in 2014. Coal fired plants were 25% of total capacity in 2007. The federal government has instituted a plan to completely eliminate coal across the country in the next decade.

                      Last I heard, Canada can get kinda cold at times.
                      And 10 years later, coal is down to 9% in Canada and so far no widespread freezing of the population.


                      https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd...s/cda-eng.html

                      cnd-fg02-eng.png

                      The Canadian coal industry: A market snapshot
                      https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd...rdctn-eng.html

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Slug View Post
                        I heard there is enough coal underground in North America to last hundreds of years. There must be a way to burn it without pollution or very little pollution.
                        Sure. The question is why bother?

                        Forbes ran an article a few weeks back that reported that progress in battery technology was progressing so fast, beyond forecasts, that it is now potentially turning some gas fired plants that are in progress into poor economic decisions.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                          Sure. The question is why bother?

                          Forbes ran an article a few weeks back that reported that progress in battery technology was progressing so fast, beyond forecasts, that it is now potentially turning some gas fired plants that are in progress into poor economic decisions.
                          Batteries must be charged with electricity. Where does the increased electrical energy come from to charge and re-charge the coming proliferation of these new batteries? How long, practically speaking, will these new wonder batteries keep a house warm in Montana during the winter? Operate a snowplow during a blizzard? Keep hospitals and critical installations operational during complete power outages? Most important of all, where and how will the depleted batteries be disposed of in an ecologically safe manner? Where will all of the rare earth metals required to manufacture these wonder batteries come from, and how long will those supplies last? They are called "rare" earth metals for a very specific reason.

                          Electrical energy is at the very core of our lives, and we must source it as inexpensively and practically as possible.
                          Last edited by Mountain Man; 11 Dec 19, 13:59.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            How long, practically speaking, will these new wonder batteries keep a house warm in Montana during the winter ?
                            Most people don't live in Montana though

                            These, for example, even bypass coal layers when they find them accidentally.

                            https://www.swecobelgium.be/en/our-o...-heat-network/

                            Most likely the "solution" will be a mix of all available technologies, with the most economical or politically expedient chosen for a particular situation.

                            Deep geothermal energy indeed has as many advantages as an energy source: local and continuously available, virtually free of greenhouse gas emissions and not dependent on fluctuations in the oil market. This way Flanders will in future be much less dependent on polluting fossil fuels from abroad.
                            At any time, somewhere, a coal stove may still be the best option, in Montana for example, but presumably in most place it won't ….
                            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                              Most people don't live in Montana though

                              These, for example, even bypass coal layers when they find them accidentally.

                              https://www.swecobelgium.be/en/our-o...-heat-network/

                              Most likely the "solution" will be a mix of all available technologies, with the most economical or politically expedient chosen for a particular situation.



                              At any time, somewhere, a coal stove may still be the best option, in Montana for example, but presumably in most place it won't ….
                              Geothermal is actually good, although the geothermal industrial park that was tried just outside Canon City never took off. The only successful business to survive was a complex of thermal baths. which has been going for decades, all by itself on a stretch of arid prairie not far from the Canon Prison Complex, of all things. The State, of course, does not use what is free to heat the prisons.

                              Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how are we going to charge and recharge all of those batteries?
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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