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More bad news for the Gorebots: Greenland ice sheet not collapsing.

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Permafrost in the coldest northern Arctic — formerly thought to be at least temporarily shielded from global warming by its extreme environment — will thaw enough to become a permanent source of carbon to the atmosphere in this century, with the peak transition occurring in 40 to 60 years, according to a new NASA-led study.

    The study calculated that as thawing continues, total carbon emissions from this region over the next 300 years or so will be 10 times as much as all human-produced fossil fuel emissions in the single year 2016.
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2691/f...ithin-decades/

    Winter temperatures are soaring in the Arctic for the fourth winter in a row. The heat, accompanied by moist air, is entering the Arctic not only through the sector of the North Atlantic Ocean that lies between Greenland and Europe, as it has done in previous years, but is also coming from the North Pacific through the Bering Strait.
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2690/u...in-the-arctic/

    A NASA study based on an innovative technique for crunching torrents of satellite data provides the clearest picture yet of changes in Antarctic ice flow into the ocean. The findings confirm accelerating ice losses from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and reveal surprisingly steady rates of flow from its much larger neighbor to the east.


    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2686/n...sharper-focus/

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    ^ Would gain be somewhat subjective given limited time-span for a data base to gauge what would be a "normal" amount, hence where is the goalpost to measure from ...
    The "goalposts" aren't static.

    Greenland gained almost all of the ice above the 12 ka (12,000 yrs. BP) horizon since the end of the last "ice age"...



    Since 2001, Greenland has lost the thickness of ice equivalent of the thin red line:

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    ^ Would gain be somewhat subjective given limited time-span for a data base to gauge what would be a "normal" amount, hence where is the goalpost to measure from ...

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    "Suggests" is not the same as fact. Do you "suggest" to your Big Oil bosses where oil might be found, or do you present serious documentation as proof?
    What Scientists really mean when they say things.
    Authoritative statements in scientific journals should not always be taken literally. I.J.Good has made a collection of them.


    [...]

    "It is suggested...", "It may be believed...", "It may be that..."
    I think.

    [...]
    http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~dinoj/scilies.html

    Setting scientific humor aside...
    "Greenland Ice Sheet's 2017 weigh-in suggests a small increase in ice mass"

    The margins of error for estimating the annual ice mass gain and loss are larger than the apparent small net gain in ice mass in 2017. As such, the data suggest a small gain in ice mass. The data don't definitively demonstrate a gain in ice mass.

    The seismic amplitude anomalies indicated by dashed yellow lines are "direct hydrocarbon indicators" (DHI's). They indicate (suggest) the presence of oil and/or gas accumulations. The only way to prove that the DHI's are oil and/or gas accumulations is to drill them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    [INDENT]Greenland Ice Sheet's 2017 weigh-in suggests a small increase in ice mass
    Author: Rebecca Lindsey
    September 14, 2017
    "Suggests" is not the same as fact. Do you "suggest" to your Big Oil bosses where oil might be found, or do you present serious documentation as proof?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    Doc,

    90% of Greenland is thick ice, and i would expect that over time it would average out over all the ice sheet.

    AFAIK, only the edges would be subject to annual warming and melting and refreezing.

    I read years ago that the Earths surface under all that ice is actually depressed downwards and if it all melted it would create a HUGE lake.
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    Those lakes are normally called oceans into which most all waters of the Earth flow, even waters from your lakes.
    Without the ice sheet, Greenland would be mostly a huge lake.




    Originally posted by Half Pint John
    A wild fire in Greenland. Hint ice doesn't burn like that

    [IMG...]
    The fire was 40 miles west of the ice sheet.



    The fire was 90 miles northeast of Sisimiut, in the big mostly green area on the southwest side of Greenland.





    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    As temperatures at the North Pole approached the melting point at the end of February, Arctic sea ice extent tracked at record low levels for this time of year. Extent was low on both the Atlantic and Pacific sides of the Arctic, with open water areas expanding rapidly in the Bering Sea during the latter half of the month. On the other side of the globe, Antarctic sea ice has reached its minimum extent for the year, the second lowest in the satellite record.

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/


    The "record" only goes back to 1979 and the "record low levels" are still a lot of ice...

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    We're entering a solar minimum. Of course its going to get cooler.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    So basically they're freaking out because their ice cream cone dripped once.

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    Doc,

    90% of Greenland is thick ice, and i would expect that over time it would average out over all the ice sheet.

    AFAIK, only the edges would be subject to annual warming and melting and refreezing.

    I read years ago that the Earths surface under all that ice is actually depressed downwards and if it all melted it would create a HUGE lake.
    Those lakes are normally called oceans into which most all waters of the Earth flow, even waters from your lakes.


    A wild fire in Greenland. Hint ice doesn't burn like that



    As temperatures at the North Pole approached the melting point at the end of February, Arctic sea ice extent tracked at record low levels for this time of year. Extent was low on both the Atlantic and Pacific sides of the Arctic, with open water areas expanding rapidly in the Bering Sea during the latter half of the month. On the other side of the globe, Antarctic sea ice has reached its minimum extent for the year, the second lowest in the satellite record.

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
    Last edited by Half Pint John; 07 Mar 18, 07:38.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Hmmm ... ???
    Greenland Ice Sheet's 2017 weigh-in suggests a small increase in ice mass
    Author: Rebecca Lindsey
    September 14, 2017



    More than a mile thick in places, the Greenland Ice Sheet is so large that it would cover the Gulf of Mexico and spill over onto the shores of the Gulf Coast states. If it melts completely, it will raise the height of the ocean surface by 20 feet (6 meters). It’s already on its way: since 2002, it’s been losing an estimated 269 billion tons of ice each year. This year, however, may be an exception.

    This animation shows areas of the ice sheet where surface melting—one process by which the ice sheet loses mass—was detected by satellite this summer. Melt area in 2017 was smaller than average in late spring and early summer.

    [...]

    https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...rease-ice-mass

    Notice how they never contextualize phrases like these: "since 2002, it’s been losing an estimated 269 billion tons of ice each year."

    269 billion tons sounds like a YUGE number; but it's insignificant compared to the total mass of the Greenland ice sheet.



    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/05/...ubes-per-year/

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Hmmm ... ???

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    Please point out where my post is WRONG!
    That’s beyond his capacity. He can't tell the difference between peripheral melting and the interior of the ice sheet.

    Originally posted by ozjohn
    And some basic good manners MAY assist!

    Thank you.

    John
    Nick normally is well-mannered.

    Leave a comment:


  • ozjohn39
    replied
    Please point out where my post is WRONG!

    And some basic good manners MAY assist!

    Thank you.

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    'GLACIER GIRL'

    A P38 that landed on the Greenland Ice cap in I think 1944.

    Stayed there for 50 years until an enterprising bunch went back to get it. It was 300 FEET down in the ice cap that had formed ABOVE the plane. Compressed snow becoming ice in due course!

    That tells me that the Greenland Ice cap is GROWING, and has been for at least 75 years now. The ice cap has a max depth of about 11,000 feet, and an average of about 7000 feet.

    GWiBS.
    Try reading the facts. The Melt is increasing. In a thread that is this short you might want to read the relevant links ?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    Doc,

    90% of Greenland is thick ice, and i would expect that over time it would average out over all the ice sheet.

    AFAIK, only the edges would be subject to annual warming and melting and refreezing.

    I read years ago that the Earths surface under all that ice is actually depressed downwards and if it all melted it would create a HUGE lake.
    More or less correct on all counts...

    Leave a comment:

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