Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Falcon not the way to go after all?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Falcon not the way to go after all?

    Space X X'd again
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35352132
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

  • #2
    I told Orville, I told Wilbur, and now I'm tellin' YOU, that thing will never fly!
    Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
    Hyperwar, Whats New
    World War II Resources
    The best place in the world to "work".

    Comment


    • #3
      Not yet! Still the best bet, unless the British have something else.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        It fulfils its purpose, delivering satellites into space... bringing it back in one piece is just a bonus. Trial and error, rocketry isn't easy.
        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
        Ernest Hemingway.

        Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?

        Comment


        • #5
          Time for a fresh approach...

          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin Rocket Took Off and Landed—Again

            Meanwhile, Bezos has a good track record of landings but hasn't yet put a payload into orbit.

            Blue Origin’s accomplishment comes just a month after its competitor SpaceX successfully landed one of its own rockets, the Falcon 9, on a landing pad at Cape Canaveral—and less than a week after it failed to land a second Falcon 9 on an autonomous barge in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
            http://www.wired.com/2016/01/jeff-be...-landed-again/
            Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

            Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

            Comment


            • #7
              Whilst re-usability is clearly a desirable goal tail down landings do look a mite old fashioned like the late 1930s designs of the British Interplanetary Society or the covers of old copies of Analogue and are clearly fraught with issues over stability.
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

              Comment


              • #8
                OTOH the tail-down solution requires little additional hardware, no special aerodynamic design constraints, and only additional fuel and software to make it happen. We already have dynamically unstable aircraft that are un-flyable without computer assistance. This is an extension of that technology.
                Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

                Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GCoyote View Post
                  OTOH the tail-down solution requires little additional hardware, no special aerodynamic design constraints, and only additional fuel and software to make it happen. We already have dynamically unstable aircraft that are un-flyable without computer assistance. This is an extension of that technology.
                  I was told that if the electrical systems go out on an F-117 the procedure is to eject and then try to find out what the problem was.
                  Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
                  Hyperwar, Whats New
                  World War II Resources
                  The best place in the world to "work".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                    I was told that if the electrical systems go out on an F-117 the procedure is to eject and then try to find out what the problem was.
                    The same is said to be true of the Typhoon with the rider that in such circumstances the aircraft may be tumbling so badly as to make safe ejection impossible! However unstable fighters are nothing new. The Morane Sauliner monoplanes of 1914/15 and the Fokker and Pfalz E types derived from them were unstable and the pilot was constantly having to move both the wing warps and the finless rudder which made long patrols very tiring.

                    I think the case of the tail landing rockets however is entirely different. Rockets have been tried before to bring objects safely to the ground. In wartime Britain inventors of the Department for Miscellaneous Weapons Development (DMWD sometimes known as The Wheezers and Dodgers) reasoned that if one could let a load fall free from an aircraft and only slow it down just before it crashed into the ground there would be less chance of it being hit by gunfire on the way down. Moreover it would be easier to drop it on a precise target as there would no longer be the problem of wind drift that a parachute experiences. The Wheezers and Dodgers had a record of many major contributions to Britain’s war effort (including floating track ways to allow faster unloading from the Mulberry Harbour off the Normandy beachhead). However they seem to have had an almost unquestioning faith in the utility and reliability of rockets and produced many devices dependent upon their use,They devised a delivery system called Hajile in which the cargo (such as a Jeep) was lashed to a pallet to which powerful solid fuel rockets had been fixed. A weight on a rope hanging beneath the pallet would hit the ground first and trigger the rockets which would slow the falling load so that it touched down gently. Initial trials over water showed that the rockets did indeed slow the pallet down to a near stop just before it hit the water (and sank).

                    Trials over land had less success, on some occasions the rockets failed to fire and Hajile buried itself in the ground whilst on other occasions they were not powerful enough so that a very hard landing resulted. The system was very susceptible to the timing of individual rockets firing and burning out, the pallet could easily become destabilised. In one trial he pallet and its load could be seen falling towards the ground when, just before impact, the rockets fired. Amid smoke and flames the falling object slowed and came to a halt. But the rockets were still firing and so it began to rise again back into the air. When it gained some height the rockets on one side of the pallet are ran out of fuel and stopped. The remaining rockets were still blazing away and the pallet became unbalanced and flipped over so that it started back down again down impelled by both gravity and the power of the rockets that still remained firing. It hit the ground with considerable force and disintegrated. After some effort the rocket firing became more reliable but the pallet still flipped over on landing. It took considerable research to discover that the problem lay in the fact that the very powerful rockets were blasting out a bowl shaped cavity immediately below the Hajile. This bowl reflected back the rocket blast into the bottom of the pallet flipping it over. The problem had still not been solved until after the D Day landings and the big Hamilcars glider had entered service by which time it was considered that Hajile would not be needed and the project came to a halt.
                    Now Falcon may be a lot more sophisticated in the control of the rocket but the ground effect issues are going to be very difficult to manage.
                    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                      I was told that if the electrical systems go out on an F-117 the procedure is to eject and then try to find out what the problem was.
                      Then let us hope that the ejection system is entirely manually powered.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maybe they could land it in a large pool of a gelatine like substance that the rocket itself expells before landing, sticking it in place.

                        It's like the early Space Race in the late fifties, early sixties again, with the technicians screwing their faces up before they "enable" the last stage of the rocket's flight plan.
                        My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                        Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                        GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                        Lincoln-Douglas Debates

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Back in the day a twelve gauge shell initiated the ejection system. I wonder how they do it now, but back then it was reliable and worked every time.
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Back in the day a twelve gauge shell initiated the ejection system. I wonder how they do it now, but back then it was reliable and worked every time.
                            Rocket powered now.
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment

                            Latest Topics

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X