Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Attack on the U.S.S. Liberty

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Attack on the U.S.S. Liberty

    Anybody read the book "Attack on the Liberty" by James Scott? Its about the June 1967 attack by Israeli air and naval forces on the U.S. spy ship Liberty. The attack occurred in international waters off the Egyptian coastline during the Six-Day War.

    I haven't finished the book yet, but I'm on Chapter 18 of 19. The thing that strikes me on this book is that it tells a one-sided story and limits the analysis of the attack to American records and sources. The author seems to have taken no effort to research the attack from the Israeli perspective other than to state a few random lines of conjecture.

    Within hours after the attack, news was leaking to the U.S. press. I find it hard to believe that after over 40 years, not a single source from the Israeli perspective has come forward with any information to shed light on this event.

    Scott's theory and conclusion is evident from page one. The attack was a deliberate act of high piracy (his father was an officer on the ship when it was attacked, so this is very personal for him I'm sure). But he never seriously asks the question that has been foremost in my mind. Why? Why did Israel do this? Scott certainly undertakes no effort to answer this question either.

    Theories abound...however, I'm looking for some scholarship that takes a critical look into the Israeli decision making process on this one. Is anybody aware of any books or articles that take this approach?

    I recognize that Israel still claims this was a tragic mistake...misidentification of the US ship that resembled, albeit superficially, an Egyptian troop transport vessel. However, I'd still like to see a detailed analysis of the possible goals and objectives from a foreign policy/military/intelligence perspective of the Israeli camp. This is long overdue.

  • #2
    I'm including 3 links that are by no means "scholar" level but might lead to some, they are intentionally Hebrew, but you can google translate them:

    http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/page...ubContrassID=2

    http://www.kr8.co.il/BRPortal/br/P102.jsp?arc=16751

    http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=2500

    This link (English) was cited by a senior researcher as 'the most reliable' and that the data was produced in cooperation with the Israeli Air Force and Navy:
    http://www.thelibertyincident.com/

    Beside I highly recommend reading the full thread in the 3rd link (fresh.co.il) it raises a few good points.

    Comment


    • #3
      According to IDF it was a matter of mistaken id.

      Now if you can believe that I got some ocean front property in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        According to IDF it was a matter of mistaken id.

        Now if you can believe that I got some ocean front property in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on.
        You obviously haven't bothered with it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Have the Israeli recon and attack pilots ever been interviewed? Have the transcripts of the communications by and between the Israeli pilots involved in the identification and subsequent attack ever been released and made public? Once again, the majority of "substantive" documents in the links you posted appear to be US generated. There appears to be no question that parts of the US government attempted to white wash the incident in order to not only exonerate the Navy and the NSA, but to protect the Israelis from both domestic and foreign political fallout. As such, I believe the US materials are questionable and am much more interested in Israeli documentation. However, I do not have the time to sift through and translate documents in Hebrew. This is something that should have already been done...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jarhead0331 View Post
            Have the transcripts of the communications by and between the Israeli pilots involved in the identification and subsequent attack ever been released and made public?
            Check out post #31 in the "Fresh" link, it has links to the NSA site which carries 3 recordings of the communication between IAF planes and their tower.

            No. 1 is between Tower and 2 rescue helicopters, citizenship of the stranded still unknown.

            No. 2 Tower informs- if the survivors are Egyptian take them to El-Arish, if they are American bring them back to Lod (BG international airport and a former, then active, IAF base)

            No. 3 Chopper pilot's communication with Navy vessels, he identifies no American flag.
            Once again, the majority of "substantive" documents in the links you posted appear to be US generated. There appears to be no question that parts of the US government attempted to white wash the incident in order to not only exonerate the Navy and the NSA, but to protect the Israelis from both domestic and foreign political fallout. As such, I believe the US materials are questionable and am much more interested in Israeli documentation. However, I do not have the time to sift through and translate documents in Hebrew. This is something that should have already been done...
            Honestly- I never burrowed in this incident, I assume there are Israeli books on the subject, but I never had interest in them, just trying to be of assistance.

            Comment


            • #7
              Michael B. Oren's Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East has a very good account of the inadvertant attack on USS Liberty, much of it from the IDF perspective.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                Michael B. Oren's Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East has a very good account of the inadvertant attack on USS Liberty, much of it from the IDF perspective.
                I have a copy of that on my "to read" shelf waiting in line...

                I know that Oren also released an article on the matter (don't know if it's independent or just a part from the book) that should be available online.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Golani View Post
                  I have a copy of that on my "to read" shelf waiting in line...

                  I know that Oren also released an article on the matter (don't know if it's independent or just a part from the book) that should be available online.
                  The book is very well researched and well written... I think you'll find it well worth the time to read it.
                  Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Golani View Post
                    Check out post #31 in the "Fresh" link, it has links to the NSA site which carries 3 recordings of the communication between IAF planes and their tower.

                    No. 1 is between Tower and 2 rescue helicopters, citizenship of the stranded still unknown.

                    No. 2 Tower informs- if the survivors are Egyptian take them to El-Arish, if they are American bring them back to Lod (BG international airport and a former, then active, IAF base)

                    No. 3 Chopper pilot's communication with Navy vessels, he identifies no American flag.
                    Respectfully, these are non-responsive to my question. I am interested in the communication between the jet aircraft involved in the actual attack...not in the communications between the helos sent in by Israel after the one hour onslaught. The fact that the jet aircraft comms have not been made public, if that is the case, is troubling.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jarhead0331 View Post
                      Respectfully, these are non-responsive to my question. I am interested in the communication between the jet aircraft involved in the actual attack...not in the communications between the helos sent in by Israel after the one hour onslaught. The fact that the jet aircraft comms have not been made public, if that is the case, is troubling.
                      Again, I do not know if they were made public or not, so don't assume that just because I don't post it they are still 'secret'.

                      OTOH, only 43 years have past, IIRC unless there's a special reason archive items such as this will only be uncovered at the 50 years mark, again, unless there's good enough reason not to release them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I read the book awhile ago and from what I remember, the Israelis were unresponsive to the author's requests for information.
                        As far as what the Israelis hoped to gain, who knows? You have to remember that US/Israel relations weren't as close as they are now. It was only 11 years after the Suez Crisis where we made them (and the UK/FR) back off.
                        That being said, I don't know how the ship could have been misidentified so badly. Just the hull numbers ID it as a US ship. I knew that from building plastic models as a pre-teen.
                        PS Every time this topic comes up, Golani tries to defend it but says that he hasn't really had time to research it "yet". It seems like "yet" never comes in his world.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                          PS Every time this topic comes up, Golani tries to defend it but says that he hasn't really had time to research it "yet". It seems like "yet" never comes in his world.
                          If you want to tell me something you can talk straight at me.

                          I hadn't had the time to research anything outside my formalities in about 5.5 years and with all due respect, when I do have the time- this ain't on the top of my list.

                          What I bring is what I know and what's on the surface.

                          Personally I find the notion that Israel knowingly, deliberately and unprovokedly assaulted anything that is U.S dubious at the very best.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dean Rusk, Johnson's Secretary of State (in the only known instance where he disagreed with the President) wrote:
                            "We also lost 34 American lives when, on June 8, the fourth day of the war, the U.S. communications ship Liberty came under air and naval attack. We were meeting with President Johnson in the White House situation room, considering the implications had the Soviets or Egyptians attacked the ship, when we received word from Tel Aviv that Israeli forces were responsible. That didn't please us, although an Israeli attack on Liberty was far easier to deal with. But I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."

                            Rusk's memoirs: "As I Saw It" (W.W.Norton, 1990) p388
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Golani View Post
                              I hadn't had the time to research anything outside my formalities in about 5.5 years and with all due respect, when I do have the time- this ain't on the top of my list.

                              What I bring is what I know and what's on the surface.

                              Personally I find the notion that Israel knowingly, deliberately and unprovokedly assaulted anything that is U.S dubious at the very best.
                              My point exactly. You blindly jump to Israel's defense when you're not that inofrmed on the story.
                              As far as why Israel assaulted it--I wouldn't put anything past them if they felt that it was in their best interests.

                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                              Dean Rusk, Johnson's Secretary of State (in the only known instance where he disagreed with the President) wrote:
                              "We also lost 34 American lives when, on June 8, the fourth day of the war, the U.S. communications ship Liberty came under air and naval attack. ...Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."

                              Rusk's memoirs: "As I Saw It" (W.W.Norton, 1990) p388
                              Works for me.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X