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The Right to Bear Arms? What History Tells Us.

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
    My time has always been spent in the Munich area - and from there south - not exactly Saxon country
    Well, exactly. I'm sure someone from Germany will weigh in on this one. HP, where are you?
    Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
    (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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    • #92
      HP is probably taking his afternoon nap -- old people need their rest
      I like Dogs far better than most People

      As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

      BoRG

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
        The question is -GS - must those two arms be "bare" or must they be strong enough to "bear" arms ?? -- This is so confusing
        The terminology "bear arms" relates back to the old legal doctorine of ferae naturae which provided that all wildlife was the property of the king. Thus, when you were to hunt, it must be done with the license of the king or would be considered poaching and all game acquired would be forfeit to the king. There was one exception. The english brown bear was very fierce and dangerous and if one were to succesfully bag one of these specimins, the law was such that you could retain the limbs of the bear, so long as the head and torso were turned over to the king. Thus, the old english saying about the natural right to keep bear arms arose.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by legaleagle_45 View Post
          The terminology "bear arms" relates back to the old legal doctorine of ferae naturae which provided that all wildlife was the property of the king. Thus, when you were to hunt, it must be done with the license of the king or would be considered poaching and all game acquired would be forfeit to the king. There was one exception. The english brown bear was very fierce and dangerous and if one were to succesfully bag one of these specimins, the law was such that you could retain the limbs of the bear, so long as the head and torso were turned over to the king. Thus, the old english saying about the natural right to keep bear arms arose.
          I see -- and you're studying to be a Lawyer - or already are one ??

          With a lucid argument, such as you just presented -- where should I send the "Retainer Check " ??
          I like Dogs far better than most People

          As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

          BoRG

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
            I see -- and you're studying to be a Lawyer - or already are one ??

            With a lucid argument, such as you just presented -- where should I send the "Retainer Check " ??
            Good morning Mein Kaiser, Loved that answer, loved it!!!
            'By Horse by Tram'.


            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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            • #96
              Good Evening Sir -- Today is our Veterans Day -- Nov. 11th -- We remember all of our hero's -- you are one of mine -- God Bless You for all you've done !
              I like Dogs far better than most People

              As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

              BoRG

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Miss You View Post
                When reading a legal commentary, don't confuse the author's personal opinions on a subject with his interpretation of a law on that subject.
                Tucker's expostion on the meaning of the 2nd Amendment was his interpretation of the law on that subject.

                Originally posted by Miss You View Post
                In 1789, the right of self-defense didn't include an individual right to keep and bear arms for personal protection.
                Incorrect, it did include the right to arms for personal protection:

                The law does "not extend to prohibit a man from keeping a gun for his necessary defence." Rex v. Gardner, 87 Eng. Rep. 1240, 1241 (K.B. 1739).

                "The mere having a gun was no offense . . . for a man may keep a gun for the defense of his house and family. "Mallock v. Eastley, 87 Eng. Rep. 1370, 1374 (K.B. 1744).

                "A gun may be kept for the defense of a manís house." Wingfield v. Stratford, 96 Eng. Rep. 787 (K.B. 1752);

                "It is not an offence to keep or use a gun."The King v. Thompson, 100 Eng. Rep. 10, 12 (K.B. 1787).

                "A gun may be used for other purposes, as the protection of a man's house." Rex v. Hartley, II Chitty 1178, 1183 (1782).

                Finally, a common jury instruction of the period in question on the meaning of the right to arms in the English Bill of Rights stated in part:

                A man has a clear right to arms to protect himself in his house. A man has a clear right to protect himself when he is going singly or in a small party upon the road where he is traveling or going for the ordinary purposes of business.
                Thus, you are clearly mistaken.

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                • #98
                  Good for you legaleagle -- I'm getting fonder of you with each passing day --

                  in a purely Platonic fashion of course

                  (had to clarify that because of that California vote thread I'm battling in )
                  I like Dogs far better than most People

                  As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

                  BoRG

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
                    Good for you legaleagle -- I'm getting fonder of you with each passing day --
                    What can I say, I am obviously a 2nd Amend nerd.

                    Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
                    in a purely Platonic fashion of course
                    Mrs. Legaleagle is relieved!

                    Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
                    (had to clarify that because of that California vote thread I'm battling in )
                    I threw in my two cents over there too, but purely on legal points of concern.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by legaleagle_45 View Post
                      What can I say, I am obviously a 2nd Amend nerd.

                      Mrs. Legaleagle is relieved!

                      I threw in my two cents over there too, but purely on legal points of concern.
                      Good -- we need some clever people to support the 2nd amendment -- it's under attack constantly - and things are about to get worse with Obama

                      Please assure Mrs. Legaleagle she has no cause for concern -- I simply could not express my admiration for your work and give my friend Crash any sort of nebulous opening Had to make my stance perfectly clear or he would reword things to suit his nefarious purposes
                      I like Dogs far better than most People

                      As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

                      BoRG

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
                        Good Evening Sir -- Today is our Veterans Day -- Nov. 11th -- We remember all of our hero's -- you are one of mine -- God Bless You for all you've done !
                        Yes the 11th is ours too, at the war memorial yesterday remembering the fallen from WW1 onwards. Thank you anyway for your kind words Mein Kaiser, excuse me while I grovel at your feet for a few moments. ( A little HaHa!)
                        'By Horse by Tram'.


                        I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                        " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                        Comment


                        • Kaiser Franz wrote

                          Good -- we need some clever people to support the 2nd amendment -- it's under attack constantly - and things are about to get worse with Obama
                          Considering that he is a Constitutional Law Professor I wouldn't be that sure of any attack on the 2nd. , except the phrase 'well regulated' what ever that means.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                          • Dresden is great and the people friendly. Good food, being close to the border it has other influences than the south or west of Germany. Now the wayward cousins that went on the boat ride with the Angels and ended up on those dreary islands are another case.
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • Yes, when I was there they thought I was a native who'd lost his tongue.

                              Big round heads and a little thick seems to be the German view, though that's maybe what happens when what passes for your intelligentsia are liquidated twice over within a few hundred years. There's only so much one can do with the material to hand.

                              As to wayward cousins. Yes I've no idea why any of them stayed either in the ancestral homeland. Or on those stepping stones in the North Sea. Lordy, why some brave lad didn't step out and head off for America and Australia in 400 AD is beyond me. Even I'd have dipped a toe in the waters.
                              Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                              (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                                Kaiser Franz wrote

                                Considering that he is a Constitutional Law Professor I wouldn't be that sure of any attack on the 2nd. , except the phrase 'well regulated' what ever that means.
                                "Well regulated" was a popular colloquial expression of the era. It's derivation is attributed to the workings of a pendulem clock. To adjust a pendulem clock so that it functioned properly and gave the correct time was accomplished by "regulating" the length of the pendulem by either lengthening it or shortening it... accomplished usually by the manipulation of a screw designed to accomplish that result. Even today some such clocks are given the name "regulator". An old style grandfather clock is an example.

                                Well regulated in contemporary times of the 2nd amend referred to "properly functioning" and was adopted to apply to all manner of things... such as a "well regulated democracy" used in the Federalist papers. Today, the term is used primarily for clocks and in reference to problems of the digestive tract...constipation and the like.

                                Anything else you want to know?

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