Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wing Chun vs Krav Maga

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
    Not to knock MMA, but it's not representative of a self-defense scenario.
    exactly, everybody gets all "MMA ROCKS BJJ IS WHERE IT'S AT!!!" but on the street or in the bar there are no rules. in a real life situation grappling is the last thing you want to do.

    heck self defense doesn't always mean a fist fight. if some one grabs you and you can get away with out having to out muscle the other person that might be enough to keep the bad guy from escalating. however some one grabs you and you punch them in the face YOU escalated it making YOU responsible.

    on a side story, at the dojo this weekend we had a testing and one of the kids kicked some ass (or should i say throat.) hard core.

    one of the instructors grabbed the front of his gi and slammed him to the ground and the kid kicked him in the throat, i came up behind him got an arm around his neck freaking elbows me in the balls (lol then again that's the only real target he had because of his size.)

    believe me, we weren't going easy on him. it was partially to show another much newer student that if he actually hits us he won't get in trouble...and that before long we'll be hitting him a lot harder too...

    after watching that wing chun video a few things that i don't like after watching it are
    1. elbow to the back of the neck. VERY dangerous, not something that should just be shown to any and every one. possible kill shot.
    2. it showed all the techniques done quick and light. even in a demonstration you should be doing the technique hard, pulling it just before you hit the person. heck i think that body shots should be a good solid thump if it's a demonstration.

    not my dojo, but here's some goju training. contact with the other person is made, and even when it's not you can still see the force behind the technique. it also shows 'soft' techniques for use mostly when 'real' fighting has yet to occur and/or can be avoided.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKeWZ...eature=related
    Last edited by General_Jacke; 09 Mar 11, 03:47. Reason: went back and watched the W.C. vid
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
      Not to knock MMA, but it's not representative of a self-defense scenario.
      Yep, I know it's not, but it's the next best thing.
      "We have no white flag."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
        Not to knock MMA, but it's not representative of a self-defense scenario.
        Further to that thought, no martial art is complete or perfect.

        Want good kicks? Spend a few years in a Tae Kwon Do dojang.

        Want good hands? Spend a few years in a Karate dojo or, as suggested above, Wing Chung. Or Kempo. The list goes on.

        Want to learn throws? Judo.

        Want to learn locks, arm bars and throws? Jui Jitsu.

        Each of these arts holds assets and each holds liabilities.

        I've been in a jiu jitsu school where we learned stuff you can't do in MMA because, well, it's lethal.

        It wasn't Marquiss of Queensbury rules where you-can-do-this-not-that. It was more like WTF-my-life's-in-danger-for-real-now-it's-game-over-for-him.

        For a complete education in self-defense it will take years of study in multiple schools. And oh-by-the-way there is *always* someone better than you. Always.

        And you can learn all the unarmed stuff you want but when a knife shows up it's a different game again.

        And when the guns show up let's all remember not to bring a knife to a gunfight.

        So those of you who are pimping a my-style-kicks-your-style's-butt let's remember the lesson that each of these arts has holes in what they teach.

        So instead of confusion, let's show some encouragement. Neither Wing Chun nor Krav Maga should be the last thing he studies if he wants a complete martial education.

        But either one of them will do just fine for a start.
        RPG Wisdom: There is nothing more exhilarating than having an opponent roll to hit without result.

        Warhammer 40K Wisdom: Heresy grows from buggy servers.

        Try to learn the difference between prudence and paranoia.

        Comment


        • #34
          Bruce Lee was a Wing Chun practitioner for Pete's sake. He used other forms as well to develop JKD, but he stated JKD was not a system unto itself.
          "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
          Groucho Marx

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by LongBlade View Post
            Further to that thought, no martial art is complete or perfect.

            Want good kicks? Spend a few years in a Tae Kwon Do dojang.

            Want good hands? Spend a few years in a Karate dojo or, as suggested above, Wing Chung. Or Kempo. The list goes on.

            Want to learn throws? Judo.

            Want to learn locks, arm bars and throws? Jui Jitsu.

            Each of these arts holds assets and each holds liabilities.

            I've been in a jiu jitsu school where we learned stuff you can't do in MMA because, well, it's lethal.

            It wasn't Marquiss of Queensbury rules where you-can-do-this-not-that. It was more like WTF-my-life's-in-danger-for-real-now-it's-game-over-for-him.

            For a complete education in self-defense it will take years of study in multiple schools. And oh-by-the-way there is *always* someone better than you. Always.

            And you can learn all the unarmed stuff you want but when a knife shows up it's a different game again.

            And when the guns show up let's all remember not to bring a knife to a gunfight.

            So those of you who are pimping a my-style-kicks-your-style's-butt let's remember the lesson that each of these arts has holes in what they teach.

            So instead of confusion, let's show some encouragement. Neither Wing Chun nor Krav Maga should be the last thing he studies if he wants a complete martial education.

            But either one of them will do just fine for a start.
            that's why you find an art that does teach a little bit of everything.
            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
            A man dies and leaves his name,
            A teacher dies and teaches death.
            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

            Comment


            • #36
              My feeling is that whatever martial art you choose, it has to be suited to what your particular requirements are and it has to be something that will hopefully enjoy enough so you will invest enough time for practice to attain and maintain proficiency.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                that's why you find an art that does teach a little bit of everything.
                Which .... brings us back to Krav Maga!

                Some additional thoughts: I don't know how Krav Maga is taught in other countries, but the gym that I attend, in addition to technique, it place quite a bit of emphasis on 'pressure training'.

                Basically, everyone puts on padded kit and helmet, and if you're the one undergoing the training, everyone else pile onto you, screaming and hitting. The whole point is not only to teach the technique of self-defence but the mental and physical training needed to survive.

                No martial arts system ever duplicates a dangerous situation where you have to defend yourself, but Krav Maga certainly seems to come close - 'pressure training' usually lasts for only about five minutes, but I don't mind admitting that the terror of having several individuals pounding on you simultaneously never quite goes away, no matter how many time you being through the training. By the end of those five minutes, I'm usually completely exhausted.

                Comment


                • #38
                  my class for wing-chun-based self-defense had sparring every session... without protective gear! ugh... let's just say, it's good for physical toughening...

                  that said, I'd say the best all-around training for close-fights (barring guns)? try to run marathons... it'll let you outrun your opponent hahahahahaha just kidding.
                  "We have no white flag."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
                    Which .... brings us back to Krav Maga!

                    Some additional thoughts: I don't know how Krav Maga is taught in other countries, but the gym that I attend, in addition to technique, it place quite a bit of emphasis on 'pressure training'.

                    Basically, everyone puts on padded kit and helmet, and if you're the one undergoing the training, everyone else pile onto you, screaming and hitting. The whole point is not only to teach the technique of self-defence but the mental and physical training needed to survive.

                    No martial arts system ever duplicates a dangerous situation where you have to defend yourself, but Krav Maga certainly seems to come close - 'pressure training' usually lasts for only about five minutes, but I don't mind admitting that the terror of having several individuals pounding on you simultaneously never quite goes away, no matter how many time you being through the training. By the end of those five minutes, I'm usually completely exhausted.
                    ...in my dojo we do mostly the same thing minus the pads and helmet...

                    hell for a girl's black belt test she had to keep 4 people from dragging her out the door, she got a chest protector cuz she was like 13 at the time...but for the older people gloves if we're lucky.
                    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                    A man dies and leaves his name,
                    A teacher dies and teaches death.
                    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                      ...in my dojo we do mostly the same thing minus the pads and helmet...

                      hell for a girl's black belt test she had to keep 4 people from dragging her out the door, she got a chest protector cuz she was like 13 at the time...but for the older people gloves if we're lucky.
                      All I can say is ... OUCH!

                      Ya. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that Krav Maga is better because only it offers such training. Whether or not a variation of such training exists at a dojo or gym seems to depend more on the instructors running the place than on the style. For example, my first Aikido instructor was a police combatives instructor. He made sure that we have plenty of free sparing session where one student may have to take on several opponents. Although he never called it that, it has elements of pressure training, such as unpredictability, multiple attacks from different direction at the same time, prolonged combat, etc. My subsequent Aikido instructors didn't emphasise this aspect, but prefer to focus on katas and the grading syllabus.

                      I think the point I was trying to make is that, if one is looking to learn skills for self-defence, this is an element to look out for, no matter the fighting style.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
                        All I can say is ... OUCH!

                        Ya. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that Krav Maga is better because only it offers such training. Whether or not a variation of such training exists at a dojo or gym seems to depend more on the instructors running the place than on the style. For example, my first Aikido instructor was a police combatives instructor. He made sure that we have plenty of free sparing session where one student may have to take on several opponents. Although he never called it that, it has elements of pressure training, such as unpredictability, multiple attacks from different direction at the same time, prolonged combat, etc. My subsequent Aikido instructors didn't emphasise this aspect, but prefer to focus on katas and the grading syllabus.

                        I think the point I was trying to make is that, if one is looking to learn skills for self-defence, this is an element to look out for, no matter the fighting style.
                        the real trick is just to find an instructor who isn't a pansy.
                        most places will apologize if a student says 'oowww... that hurts!' they'll grovel and beg the student to stay.

                        in my dojo 'oww that hurts' gets the response of 'good that means they're doing it right, now do it to them' or one of the most popular things kids say when we ask why they're not hitting hard "i don't want to hurt them/i don't like hitting people." the reply to those "i'll give you a dollar if you hurt them/if you don't like hitting people there's a ballet school down the street."

                        if the instructor is serious about teaching you how to defend yourself, then the style they teach will be better than the brazilian jiu jitsu teacher who just wants to get people in the cage, and something you need to learn before you start is that you WILL get hit, wether you miss a block or because you're told to just stand there and take, you need to know what it feels like to hit and get hit with out a million layers of protective gear on. it works wonders when people hit you and you smile back at them.
                        the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                        A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                        A man dies and leaves his name,
                        A teacher dies and teaches death.
                        Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                          the real trick is just to find an instructor who isn't a pansy.
                          most places will apologize if a student says 'oowww... that hurts!' they'll grovel and beg the student to stay.

                          in my dojo 'oww that hurts' gets the response of 'good that means they're doing it right, now do it to them' or one of the most popular things kids say when we ask why they're not hitting hard "i don't want to hurt them/i don't like hitting people." the reply to those "i'll give you a dollar if you hurt them/if you don't like hitting people there's a ballet school down the street."

                          if the instructor is serious about teaching you how to defend yourself, then the style they teach will be better than the brazilian jiu jitsu teacher who just wants to get people in the cage, and something you need to learn before you start is that you WILL get hit, wether you miss a block or because you're told to just stand there and take, you need to know what it feels like to hit and get hit with out a million layers of protective gear on. it works wonders when people hit you and you smile back at them.
                          And, if an instructor claims that he will train you in some magical technique that will mean you never have to get hurt ... WALK AWAY! It's obvious he doesn't know what he's talking about.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
                            And, if an instructor claims that he will train you in some magical technique that will mean you never have to get hurt ... WALK AWAY! It's obvious he doesn't know what he's talking about.
                            red flags when looking for a school.

                            1. contracts that guarantee rank after training X number of weeks/months/years.
                            2. any one claiming to teach a 'death touch' type technique or other improbable techniques. (secret, 'ancient', etc.)
                            3. horridly out of shape instructors.
                            4. instructors that can't give you an example of when they had to use a technique they teach in real life. (most good instructors have been given good reason through out their lives to train hard.)
                            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                            A man dies and leaves his name,
                            A teacher dies and teaches death.
                            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              If you study martial arts and get to a brawl, the best thing is to walk/run away. Even if you didn't start it and end up defending yourself, you'll either have your ass kicked or get sued, and then you'll have a criminal record and may have to pay for the "victim".

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by kek View Post
                                If you study martial arts and get to a brawl, the best thing is to walk/run away. Even if you didn't start it and end up defending yourself, you'll either have your ass kicked or get sued, and then you'll have a criminal record and may have to pay for the "victim".
                                Not in America. You are allowed to defend yourself here. If you take Martial Arts and use it as a bully, you may find yourself in trouble with the law.
                                "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
                                Groucho Marx

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X