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  • Civilian's Survival Tactics.

    First, let me make it clear that I am not what the average Republican would call a 'doomsday nut'. (I'm sure a liberal would.) But I do not expect there to be a total economic collapse.

    However, I believe that there are many reasons why you and I should be prepared for any scenario.

    1: I live in Louisiana, and during hurricanes the police and the governments are ridiculously slow to act, (Not their fault.) Many people take advantage of this and while 'chaos reigns', their is a quick spree of looting, raping, and stealing. To properly last through a hurricane and looters unscathed, it is better to be self reliant and well armed. So in other words, being prepared for worst case scenarios helps your position during mini-crises like hurricanes. After a hurricane, there are so many trees on the road that you can easily go a month in seclusion.

    2: For those who are proponents of the 2nd bit of the Constitution, being well armed and self reliant is a right that not very many people exercise.

    3: And it's cool.

    But here, this thread is for people to discuss the finer arts of self reliance and disaster preparation.
    (Again, I stress that I am not a doomsday nut who thinks that the entire world will fall apart soon.)

    _________________________________

    First, I had a question about body armor.
    Body armor should go right along with having a gun for home defense. If you ever get into a fire fight, body armor is a little advantage you may want to invest in. This part of the thread is concerning body armor.

    First, as we all know, body armor is just a trauma plate, or a series of plates, inserted into some kind of web gear. I've read conflicting opinions about body armor, ranging from the fact that even the best body armor can only stop shotgun and low velocity rounds to hearing that it can easily stop a .308 round. So first, what body armor system is best to invest in?

    And second, where can you buy it? I've found body armor and armor systems on eBay, but the reliability of these is in doubt.
    On CheaperthanDirt I found plenty of web gear designed for body armor, but Cheaper than dirt doesn't sell the trauma plates. Which leads me to ask...
    Is it possible that you could make your own body armor? Simple recipes seem to just include a plate of steel made to fit into the sleeves of web gear...

    ________________________

    Though there is no end in sight for the debate on which is a better weapon for home defense, I would appreciate it if you guys threw in your opinions on the matter.
    As for me, I've read a lot of good things about the FN-FAL, it can be modified to fully automatic and fires the weighty .308 round.
    The AK-47 holds a special place as well. The 7.62x39mm round has great stopping power. I have hit man sized targets out to 300 yards with it too.

    These are weapons for general home defense, but what would be your choice for a long range weapon? For hunting? For on the move? And Why?

    God Bless and accuracy to you guys...

    Loki

    (Again, I stress that I am not a doomsday nut who thinks that the entire world will fall apart soon.)
    "The Objective in war is not to die for your country, but to make the other (guy) die for his." - PATTON
    "If Emily Post doesn't work, try Sigmund Freud." - Hogan

  • #2
    Originally posted by Loki View Post
    First, let me make it clear that I am not what the average Republican would call a 'doomsday nut'. (I'm sure a liberal would.) But I do not expect there to be a total economic collapse.

    However, I believe that there are many reasons why you and I should be prepared for any scenario.

    1: I live in Louisiana, and during hurricanes the police and the governments are ridiculously slow to act, (Not their fault.) Many people take advantage of this and while 'chaos reigns', their is a quick spree of looting, raping, and stealing. To properly last through a hurricane and looters unscathed, it is better to be self reliant and well armed. So in other words, being prepared for worst case scenarios helps your position during mini-crises like hurricanes. After a hurricane, there are so many trees on the road that you can easily go a month in seclusion.

    2: For those who are proponents of the 2nd bit of the Constitution, being well armed and self reliant is a right that not very many people exercise.

    3: And it's cool.

    But here, this thread is for people to discuss the finer arts of self reliance and disaster preparation.
    (Again, I stress that I am not a doomsday nut who thinks that the entire world will fall apart soon.)

    _________________________________

    First, I had a question about body armor.
    Body armor should go right along with having a gun for home defense. If you ever get into a fire fight, body armor is a little advantage you may want to invest in. This part of the thread is concerning body armor.

    First, as we all know, body armor is just a trauma plate, or a series of plates, inserted into some kind of web gear. I've read conflicting opinions about body armor, ranging from the fact that even the best body armor can only stop shotgun and low velocity rounds to hearing that it can easily stop a .308 round. So first, what body armor system is best to invest in?

    And second, where can you buy it? I've found body armor and armor systems on eBay, but the reliability of these is in doubt.
    On CheaperthanDirt I found plenty of web gear designed for body armor, but Cheaper than dirt doesn't sell the trauma plates. Which leads me to ask...
    Is it possible that you could make your own body armor? Simple recipes seem to just include a plate of steel made to fit into the sleeves of web gear...

    ________________________

    Though there is no end in sight for the debate on which is a better weapon for home defense, I would appreciate it if you guys threw in your opinions on the matter.
    As for me, I've read a lot of good things about the FN-FAL, it can be modified to fully automatic and fires the weighty .308 round.
    The AK-47 holds a special place as well. The 7.62x39mm round has great stopping power. I have hit man sized targets out to 300 yards with it too.

    These are weapons for general home defense, but what would be your choice for a long range weapon? For hunting? For on the move? And Why?

    God Bless and accuracy to you guys...

    Loki

    (Again, I stress that I am not a doomsday nut who thinks that the entire world will fall apart soon.)
    Defending your home against an intruder is not some Hollywoody scenario in which there is plenty of time to strap on your body armor and load 'em up. It's do it now or die. You take time to dress for the part and youl;rs will be the first body on the floor.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      The best weapon for home defense is a shotgun with large birdshot in it. That way when the District Attorney investigates you can claim it still was loaded for duck season. If you need more than a shotgun, you are already out gunned! A shotgun made for deer hunting is not so good, but usable. Birdshot will not go through your neighbor's house.

      If I have to go to my AK-47 and/or AR-15, I assume the local law will be investigating the shoot out!

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Loki View Post
        As for me, I've read a lot of good things about the FN-FAL, it can be modified to fully automatic and fires the weighty .308 round.
        Just what I'd want- an 8lb full automatic .308...what fun!

        Comment


        • #5
          If you are using a interceptor system like the military uses then you wouldn't want to be standing around, taking a few minutes suiting up in it while an intruder is crawling around outside your bedroom door.

          I meant for regular home defense a web belt with the trauma plates inside would work nicely enough and only take a second to slip on over your head. I admit, if I was in my house and had my body armor and AK beside my bed and heard someone downstairs I wouldn't bother with the armor and would just grab my AK.

          However, if I had a moment and I was about to get in a little shootout with multiple and/or armed looters after a hurricane, I would devote a second to slipping on a vest with the trauma plate inserts.

          I do see your point though and I do agree that in the close quarters home defense case you would barely have to time to grab your firearm let alone strap on layer after layer of high tech Interceptor self defense system.

          A cool book to read that is a survival and home defense manual disguised as fiction is 'Patriots' by Rawles.
          "The Objective in war is not to die for your country, but to make the other (guy) die for his." - PATTON
          "If Emily Post doesn't work, try Sigmund Freud." - Hogan

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by johns624 View Post
            Just what I'd want- an 8lb full automatic .308...what fun!
            If you wanted your model of the FN FAL to be fully automatic then you would have to acquire a license from the US government. It costs a bit and requires a training course but i could be worth it. There are some states that outlaw them totally.

            Doesn't the FN FAL come in semiautomatic as well as full?
            "The Objective in war is not to die for your country, but to make the other (guy) die for his." - PATTON
            "If Emily Post doesn't work, try Sigmund Freud." - Hogan

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd be more interested to hear about your plans for long-term survival. I mean, You can't eat a bulletproof vest.

              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              The best weapon for home defense is a shotgun with large birdshot in it. That way when the District Attorney investigates you can claim it still was loaded for duck season. If you need more than a shotgun, you are already out gunned! A shotgun made for deer hunting is not so good, but usable. Birdshot will not go through your neighbor's house.
              Birdshot? Dick Cheney shot a old man in the face using birdshot and the guy survived. You'd be better off throwing a brick at the guy.

              Though going by your other posts on here, I'm surprised you didn't recommend using a matchlock.
              Last edited by the_redstar_swl; 04 Jun 09, 22:53.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
                I'd be more interested to hear about your plans for long-term survival. I mean, You can't eat a bulletproof vest.
                The real survivalist is going to be putting more thought into this than which gun I need.

                Originally posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
                Birdshot? Dick Cheney shot a old man in the face using birdshot and the guy survived. You'd be better off throwing a brick at the guy.
                Trigger finger Dick was a bit further away than some prowler in your hallway. Even number 8 birdshot at 10 feet is going to do some serious harm if not fatal harm.

                BB shot seems to be a nice compromise in my mind.
                As lord and master of your grill, you will welcome any opportunity to display your grilling prowess.
                Mario Batali, 2006

                Comment


                • #9
                  Matchlock?

                  Originally posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
                  I'd be more interested to hear about your plans for long-term survival. I mean, You can't eat a bulletproof vest.



                  Birdshot? Dick Cheney shot a old man in the face using birdshot and the guy survived. You'd be better off throwing a brick at the guy.

                  Though going by your other posts on here, I'm surprised you didn't recommend using a matchlock.
                  Redstar, ole buddy, I am beginning to suspect a little animosity on your part. That is a shame, because I have enjoyed a number of your posts. I can't say whether or not you have hunted large birds, but I have done it a couple of times. The smallest load I would use is #4 birdshot. At say 10 feet or less, it will stop most hopped up burglars. I doubt our esteemed former VP was using anything bigger than #7 1/2 for quail. I would use #8 to #9 size birdshot, mainly because my eyesight is going and I have to let them get really close. If you load up with #00 buckshot you might have to explain to the local District Attorney the last time you went hunting deer and if anyone can vouch for that. If YOU really want to keep a matchlock and can keep the match burning, you have my blessing...

                  By the way, back in the Sixties, the Birmingham Police Department used shotguns loaded with #8 1/2 birdshot on the demonstrators. They claimed it was humane until it killed a young Black boy.

                  Pruitt
                  Last edited by Pruitt; 04 Jun 09, 23:54.
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                    The best weapon for home defense is a shotgun with large birdshot in it. That way when the District Attorney investigates you can claim it still was loaded for duck season. If you need more than a shotgun, you are already out gunned! A shotgun made for deer hunting is not so good, but usable. Birdshot will not go through your neighbor's house.

                    If I have to go to my AK-47 and/or AR-15, I assume the local law will be investigating the shoot out!

                    Pruitt
                    If you can articulate that you were in fear of great bodily harm or death it doesn't matter if you shot an aggressor with a 22 short, 00 Buck, or a 308 round you would be fine either way as long as your weapon of choice isn't something illegal in the first place like say a sawed off shotgun.

                    For instance an armed intruder making entry into your residence is definitely a deadly force situation.

                    Unarmed intruder... maybe, maybe not. Depends on the circumstances.

                    A 5' 100 lb woman could be justified in using deadly force against a larger, unarmed male intruder.

                    A 6'4' 225 lb male probably wouldn't.

                    Every one has the right to self defense within reason. The size of the round or caliber of weapon has no bearing on weather or not a criminal act was committed.
                    "The blade itself incites to deeds of violence".

                    Homer


                    BoRG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Chuck,

                      I understand what you say. My home is not well lit when I turn in. Right now my kid is doing Summer visitation with her Mother, so if I wake to hear someone else in the house, they are not friendly! My concern is some of the younger people seem to advocate large caliber weapons that can probably go through room and into a neighbor's residence. My easiest choice is my pistol by my bed. I also have several other options near to hand. If I want to use my shotgun, I had better put a couple of shells in it.

                      Because I occasionally have people in my house that do not know weapons, none of mine have a round in the chamber.

                      I feel I am on good legal ground in my locale if someone comes in and I feel the need to put a couple rounds in them. The local law is homeowner friendly. Just don't go chasing them out of the house shooting...

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm no expert, but body armor has certain ratings. I think armor up to a III or IIIA will stop any pistol round and shotgun pellets, but no rifle rounds. That takes a steel or ceramic trauma plate.

                        I have a Remington 870 12 ga, a Glock 22 .40 cal, and a Sig Sauer P228 9mm for competition/home defense. In case all else fails, I have a razor sharp shinken and wakizashi, several daggers, a longsword, and a basket hilt claymore.
                        TTFN

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmmm, knowing my own home with a lot of hallways and corners, I would be more comfortable with something like an FN-2000 or a P90, compact and easy to maneuver around corners. My unexpert opinion is that an AK or other fairly long weapon would be more susceptible to someone grabbing it before you could engage during a cqb scenario. I'd like a pistol as a secondary, either M1911, Glock, or Sig .40 cal.
                          TTFN

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
                            I'd be more interested to hear about your plans for long-term survival. I mean, You can't eat a bulletproof vest.
                            No, but we can eat each other !!!!

                            As for when a burglar comes into my home, I have a mask and suit ready...
                            I'll put on the mask and dress as a burglar so that when the REAL burglar comes in, he'll believe that I'm a real burglar and he'll take the next house !!!

                            It's not a matter of which guns or weapons you have, it's how creative you are IMO !!!!

                            PS: By the way, I don't have anything that is worth a fortune...so looting and B&E at my place is a waste of time...
                            Last edited by Stratego; 05 Jun 09, 05:32.
                            Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                            It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                            Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                            BORG

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ..an OLD M1911A...it's very LOUD! ..and if I just happen to miss with the first round, it may be enough to discourage the perp from continuing to occupy his person on my premises.
                              ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                              IN MARE IN COELO

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