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The Medival European Knight vs a Japanese Samurai

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  • Originally posted by americansamurai View Post
    Who could own what weapons and even the size allowed changed from time to time. This is a good article on the ownership of weapons by commoners in Japan.

    http://www.una.edu/faculty/takeuchi/...onin_sword.htm

    Its my understanding that the role of ashigaru also changed during the Edo period but its a murky subject and hard to find researched information.
    Great link! Clears up some questions but not all.

    Have anything on the guns being turned in?
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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    • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
      Great link! Clears up some questions but not all.

      Have anything on the guns being turned in?
      Have a look through this book.

      http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=...page&q&f=false

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      • Hate to say it, but in Armchair General's rival magazine, Military Heritage, there was an excellent article on Miyamoto Musashi.

        Not really on topic, but thought you guys (and gal) would like to know.
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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        • The relevance of individual dedication & training!

          Originally posted by Alice---""My take on the whole thing is that, no armor is invulnerable and no amount of mobility guarantees evasion so it all comes down to the individual. Armor vs. mobility is the long argued 'less filling/tastes great' debate of warfare. I've seen German longsword demos as well as Kenjutsu demos and they are so similar once you get past the cosmetic differences. So, to me, it is the person who has the superior training regimen and spends more hours developing their skill, who will likely be the victor. In that, I would certainly think that knights of religious orders and others who were dedicated to their skill would be equally matched to samurai of serious dojo training.""

          ""It is a precept of Budo that, once you have achieved mastery, all arts at the same. It's rather paradoxical, but I am beginning to see that in my martial development. Fencing, karate, kendo, aikido...they all blend together to make me a better opponent. The mindset, the body, the conditioning, the timing, tempo, and distance are all one, only the specific techniqes are different.
          ""

          Well that basically sums up my take on the whole seemingly endless & undoubtedly complex Medieval Knight vs a Japanese Samurai debate ((If you ask me Alice's postings are the best & most enjoyable to read in this thrilling & superbly debated thread! Though there has been so many other GREAT & excellent postings as well!)).

          For it all comes down to the particular training regimen along with the overall amount of training that the individual warrior decided to subject himself to, his level of thorough dedication, depth of devotion & mastery of the specific skill & fighting techniques that he has chosen.

          For as Alice made clear it's the amount of training in a particular style/technique/method rather than the style itself that will determine the superior warrior & better, more skilled fighter.

          More-over, I would take this superbly trained & thoroughly skilled practitioner of the old-school German longsword fencing techniques over this Samurai whose depth of immersion, extent of overall training & level of dedication was less than that of the warrior skilled in the German tradition, someone whose dexterity & overall capability in his chosen style would be superior to that of the aspiring Samurai.

          Though the one area where I would always confer this edge to the Samurai would be in the very deep reverence & the mystical regard that those renowned Japanese warriors invariably had for their personal Katana swords, this trait that was very unique to their culture.

          Also, because of such deeply ingrained, culturally inspired mystical regard for their swords the typical Samurai aspirant would no doubt be imbued with this ferocious & thoroughly over-riding warrior ethos, therefore fostering this rigidly focused mentality sharpened to this razor's edge, giving that particular, budding Samurai this advantage over just about any other equally ambitious warrior from another, similarly warlike sect.

          Yet I must admit that the environment that the typical Gallowglass soldier((this prominent feature in some of my previous postings in this particular thread, on pages 17, 21, 22, 23 & 26!)) sprang from was extremely warlike, as blood-drenched, ferocious & unremittingly demanding as any such society that was ever based upon war throughout the history of this planet.

          So as I illustrated several times before ((I know, too much redundancy!)) the ideal European warrior of the late Medieval Era most like, & in many ways very similar too, the Japanese Samurai would be the Irish/Scottish Gallowglass mercenary, for they were quite possibly the most fearsome, blood-crazed, martial, dedicated & rigorously trained warrior sect to emerge anywhere in Europe all throughout that particular time ((the middle 1200s till the late 1500's!)), these genuine bad-asses through & through.

          For no one went through & endured this more brutal, harsh, ruthless, merciless, painful, deadly, bloody, intense, strenuous, physically draining & sadistic training course/regimen than those large, powerfully built, chain mail donning Gaelic mercenaries, true European Samurai!

          More-over, the Gallowglass mercenaries ((who usually wore this leather padded garb under their chain mail covering)) could wield & fight with their broadswords & axes as well as any, as their proficiency & skill with those weapons was virtually unmatched & basically without peer!

          So of all the various, diverse & super tough European knights/warriors that came to bloody prominence during that particular time in history the Irish/Scottish Gallowglass would be quite possibly the finest, fiercest & most formidable choice to select as this roughly equal European counterpart to the steely eyed, insanely well trained, proto-typical Japanese Samurai springing from the 16th or 17th centuries.

          For what a fight to the finish that would prove to be ((my postings on pages 17 & 21 go into considerable & vivid detail on the various body movements, combat maneuvers & sword fighting tactics that would no doubt be on display during such a duel!))! I would pay to see that one! For despite their different sword fighting styles & techniques the one who trained the longest & hardest would probably prevail ((or they would both just kill each other at exactly the same moment!))!

          Any ways, this is thee coolest & most thrilling thread found anywhere within the vast, wide World Web!
          Last edited by Taylor Ahern; 31 Dec 10, 17:02.

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          • Awwww, thank you, Taylor!

            I'm back to my first training sword. It's so light. My cuts are magnificent, but it feels like I'm cheating. I'll be ordering a true weight sword again soon.
            TTFN

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            • Through a link from another thread I found this old discussion. I recently saw the videos by the gentleman below and he made some fairly simple yet robust points on these matters. This video is him having a go at the 'katana cultists', but listen and ye shall hear his thoughts on comparing different styles of swordsmanship/type of warrior, and how difficult it can be to compare them.

              Ultimately he concludes that it depends on the individual warrior's performance on the day. (skip to about 3;10 for that.

              ------
              'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

              If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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              • I saw and commented on that video recently. I thought it was well thought out.
                TTFN

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                • Always wondered how many times this question has been debated/argued over since the advent of the Internet? Hundreds, thousands?
                  Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                  • High thousands, possibly even millions!

                    Edit; on a side note, I recently ordered a very knightly weapon, should arrive soon - I'll post pics under weapons of war or something
                    ------
                    'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                    If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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                    • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      Always wondered how many times this question has been debated/argued over since the advent of the Internet? Hundreds, thousands?
                      Several hundred thousand times more than it should have been?

                      The problem is that one generation of users discusses it. Then a whole new generation wants their go twelve months later.
                      "Sometimes its better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness" T Pratchett

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