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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    The object of the game is to get more of your boules closer to the object ball than your opponent(s). For each boule closer than the opponent's closest boule is one point. 13 points wins the game. Depending on the situation a player can be a pointer or a shooter.

    One, as a pointer, can place their boules closer to the object ball (jack). They can throw the boule in the air much like a mortar round landing close to the jack and rolling a very short distance. Or one can throw the boule, like an artillery round, half or more and essentially 'walk' the boule in close for the point. Or on a flat, hard court a player can drop the boule early, about two meters, and roll it close to the jack much like a putt on a golf green.

    English is used to throw the boule around blocking boules or obstacles (such as a large stone or broken branch....).

    If one cannot get a boule closer to the jack than the opponents, because it blocks the avenue of approach or is so close (even touching) the jack it would be very tough to beat it, then one, as a shooter, can shoot away the opponent's near boule. Courts are not always flat, nor even. Sometimes the shooters feet is above or below the target boule which requires an adjustment in the targeting to compensate for the difference (just like in golf the compensation in the club swing for when the golf ball is above or below the feet on a bank).

    Your verbal equation doesn't suggest too much to me, because the variables in the throw will change as the shooter gets tired and looses control in the arm swing, wrist snap, and release timing as well as the mental concentration on the target.
    Fatigue is always an element/factor in any sport/skill application, still, there remains a basic technique~co-ordination approach that is in need of constant modification. Once trained well enough in "the basics" a player can make adjustments to terrain challenges and/or declines in dexterity.

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Sounds interesting. Especially since I may want to try and set up such a gamefield for next Summer in my back yard.
    Perfect!!

    You will learn to play the game in minutes and spend the rest of your life perfecting your play--just like martial arts; it's a journey.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    Actually, bumping out the opponent with your pointed boule is a way. The shooter can shoot the target boule and precisely hit the boule with a downward arch at the military crest of the boule, the opponent's boule will fly away and the shooter's boule will replace it in its exact spot--it is called a "carreaux" in the game.

    Or if the shooter is a little off the mark, it can knock the target boule far away, but will stay closer to the jack, called a "pallet", retaking the closest point.

    If you a really interested, recommend you google "Youtube petanque" competition and watch a couple of rounds. There is also on youtube "how to play petanque" which gives the basics of the games, narrated by yours truly in the 1990. I start with a red, white and blue sweat jacket.
    Sounds interesting. Especially since I may want to try and set up such a gamefield for next Summer in my back yard.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Pentangue - IV

    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    So, ... how does all this translate into "training" ... ???

    First, we are dealing with targeting a horizontal "grid" of proximity to a "target location ("Jack")", so we should practice on getting our (hollow)ball/'Boules' where we want them to be ~Close as Possible to the target/"Jack".

    Second, we want to find ways to hit and distance the opponent team's balls/boules from the target/"Jack"; while hopefully placing that effecting ball/boule closer to the "target"/"Jack".

    The best way to do this is to develop skill set (instinctive~generic) of pitch ~ toss/roll that gets our ball/boule closer to the target/"Jack" while "bumping" the oppossing team's ball/boule further away ...

    Hence the use of a "Grid" target matrix practice system ...
    What might work best is a training grid of 3x3, at least, or better maybe a 7x7 grid. In the 7x7 grid the target/Jack is at 4x4 with a 3x3 grid in each of four corners. In general/generic training one is working out the habit/sub-conscious eye-brain-hand co-ordination to land in center square of the "grid", and/or on the line intersects "+"; area targeting skills.

    One could then refine towards "specific" practice upon "opponent" balls/boules within some part of the "target grid/matrix"; variations upon basic lob/toss ...

    So, we have a two stage practice approach of ...
    1) Generic/general target zone/grid practice, goal a sub-conscious/intinctive "general" toss skill ...
    2) a "specific" adjustment of the general toss skill for hitting, where wanted, upon a target ball/boule ...
    3) a "final position" of toss~roll~mix getting out ball/boule closer to target/"Jack" than our opponent.

    We are seeking to develop a mix of "instinctive"~general target area toss technique with the ability to modify such for a more localized and conscious/focused technique depending upon oppossing team ball/boule lay.

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Actually, bumping out the opponent with your pointed boule is a way. The shooter can shoot the target boule and precisely hit the boule with a downward arch at the military crest of the boule, the opponent's boule will fly away and the shooter's boule will replace it in its exact spot--it is called a "carreaux" in the game.

    Or if the shooter is a little off the mark, it can knock the target boule far away, but will stay closer to the jack, called a "pallet", retaking the closest point.

    If you a really interested, recommend you google "Youtube petanque" competition and watch a couple of rounds. There is also on youtube "how to play petanque" which gives the basics of the games, narrated by yours truly in the 1990. I start with a red, white and blue sweat jacket.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Pentangue - III

    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    So ...
    Unlike other "projectile" sports where the target grid is verticle-horizontal, like archery/bows/arrows or firearms/powder/bullets and there is a mechanical assist, here we have a "horizontal" target grid and the "projectile power" is all human muscle. Somewhere between a cross of verticle~Javelin/shot-put/horse-shoes and bowling~crocet~billards,etc. ~~~ ...

    Basic training in targeting methods for either horizontal or verticle would center around use of a grid to achieve two goals;
    A) General area/grid accuracy
    B) Specific Target/Vector Impact WITH re-act vector/direction move of target-impact ball/boule.*

    This would suggest training on two goals;
    1) An instintive/generic toss~roll~Lob/mix stance and method to hit a "target" square/grid of the test/train field.
    2) An adjust the basic/instinctive/genric toss-to-grid/square for specific placed target ball/boule.

    There is a training ~ Skills-set method that comes to mind here ...

    * Where "spin" or "english" comes into play.
    So, ... how does all this translate into "training" ... ???

    First, we are dealing with targeting a horizontal "grid" of proximity to a "target location ("Jack")", so we should practice on getting our (hollow)ball/'Boules' where we want them to be ~Close as Possible to the target/"Jack".

    Second, we want to find ways to hit and distance the opponent team's balls/boules from the target/"Jack"; while hopefully placing that effecting ball/boule closer to the "target"/"Jack".

    The best way to do this is to develop skill set (instinctive~generic) of pitch ~ toss/roll that gets our ball/boule closer to the target/"Jack" while "bumping" the oppossing team's ball/boule further away ...

    Hence the use of a "Grid" target matrix practice system ...

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    The object of the game is to get more of your boules closer to the object ball than your opponent(s). For each boule closer than the opponent's closest boule is one point. 13 points wins the game. Depending on the situation a player can be a pointer or a shooter.

    One, as a pointer, can place their boules closer to the object ball (jack). They can throw the boule in the air much like a mortar round landing close to the jack and rolling a very short distance. Or one can throw the boule, like an artillery round, half or more and essentially 'walk' the boule in close for the point. Or on a flat, hard court a player can drop the boule early, about two meters, and roll it close to the jack much like a putt on a golf green.

    English is used to throw the boule around blocking boules or obstacles (such as a large stone or broken branch....).

    If one cannot get a boule closer to the jack than the opponents, because it blocks the avenue of approach or is so close (even touching) the jack it would be very tough to beat it, then one, as a shooter, can shoot away the opponent's near boule. Courts are not always flat, nor even. Sometimes the shooters feet is above or below the target boule which requires an adjustment in the targeting to compensate for the difference (just like in golf the compensation in the club swing for when the golf ball is above or below the feet on a bank).

    Your verbal equation doesn't suggest too much to me, because the variables in the throw will change as the shooter gets tired and looses control in the arm swing, wrist snap, and release timing as well as the mental concentration on the target.
    Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 05 Dec 17, 14:23.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Pentangue - II

    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    If I understand this game correctly;

    > The "Jack"(target) ball is a solid while the "game" balls of the two teams are hollow.
    > Both teams (# 1-3, with six balls/boules to play) roll~toss~mix from the same launch circle/ring towards the target/"Jack" ball.
    > Players of each team might be classed as rollers(Pointers), tossers(Shooters), or "mix"*.

    Game is played in rounds/Ends where closest balls/boules to the target/"Jack" gain points and/or round/end win.

    Play goes until a team totals 13 points, equals a win;

    Got the basics here ???

    * = My invented term for a "lobber" whom then applies a landing/impact roll to the ball/boule via "spin"/"english" ...
    So ...
    Unlike other "projectile" sports where the target grid is verticle-horizontal, like archery/bows/arrows or firearms/powder/bullets and there is a mechanical assist, here we have a "horizontal" target grid and the "projectile power" is all human muscle. Somewhere between a cross of verticle~Javelin/shot-put/horse-shoes and bowling~crocet~billards,etc. ~~~ ...

    Basic training in targeting methods for either horizontal or verticle would center around use of a grid to achieve two goals;
    A) General area/grid accuracy
    B) Specific Target/Vector Impact WITH re-act vector/direction move of target-impact ball/boule.*

    This would suggest training on two goals;
    1) An instintive/generic toss~roll~Lob/mix stance and method to hit a "target" square/grid of the test/train field.
    2) An adjust the basic/instinctive/genric toss-to-grid/square for specific placed target ball/boule.

    There is a training ~ Skills-set method that comes to mind here ...

    * Where "spin" or "english" comes into play.
    Last edited by G David Bock; 05 Dec 17, 14:08. Reason: context adjustment

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Petangue - I

    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    If I understand this game correctly;

    > The "Jack"(target) ball is a solid while the "game" balls of the two teams are hollow.
    > Both teams (# 1-3, with six balls/boules to play) roll~toss~mix from the same launch circle/ring towards the target/"Jack" ball.
    > Players of each team might be classed as rollers(Pointers), tossers(Shooters), or "mix"*.

    Game is played in rounds/Ends where closest balls/boules to the target/"Jack" gain points and/or round/end win.

    Play goes until a team totals 13 points, equals a win;

    Got the basics here ???

    * = My invented term for a "lobber" whom then applies a landing/impact roll to the ball/boule via "spin"/"english" ...

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Different perspectives:

    A samurai walks into an inn and orders a bowl of rice with fish and sake. As he eats his bowl of food, three ronins sitting at a nearby table make rude remarks about the samurai and become threatening in their tone. The samurai with his chopsticks snatches quickly three flies in the air, then resumes eating. The ronins look at each other and hurry out of the inn.


    A marshal walks into a tavern and orders a bowl of chili and beer. As he eats his chili, three gunslingers standing at the bar turn around and make taunting remarks with a challenge in their tone. The marshal quickly snatches up three flies from the tabletop with his right bare hand and then sips his beer with his left hand. The three gunslingers step closer, and their leader said, "Well, you're good with flies, but how about with men?"

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    Been a few years since I read it. The author was a leading UK table tennis player, on the national team I think. Not world champion or anything but compared to the average leisure player in a different league.
    Essentially the book says that to get to be really good at anything you need lots and lots of directed practice. That practice is much more important than talent or aptitude. And if you look behind supposed overnight success stories you will find someone who has spent many years preoaring. Even child prodigies like Mozart just started practicing at a very young age.
    The oft quoted figure is 10000 hours of directed practice are needed to make someone world class.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Syed
    IMHO, the easterners have a better perspective on the role of the mind in the martial arts than the westerners' scientific answers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    There is no question it takes practice to be very good at anything.

    If you have the book, can you tell us the background of the author? The blurb on the book talks about his astounding summer--doesn't sound like his has practiced something over a very long time.
    Been a few years since I read it. The author was a leading UK table tennis player, on the national team I think. Not world champion or anything but compared to the average leisure player in a different league.
    Essentially the book says that to get to be really good at anything you need lots and lots of directed practice. That practice is much more important than talent or aptitude. And if you look behind supposed overnight success stories you will find someone who has spent many years preoaring. Even child prodigies like Mozart just started practicing at a very young age.
    The oft quoted figure is 10000 hours of directed practice are needed to make someone world class.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Syed
    Last edited by Surrey; 20 Nov 17, 08:52.

    Leave a comment:


  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    The 'quality of mind' is called practice, lots of practice and experience.

    That is how you determine how and who is going to attack in multiple opponent situations. Or driving on a mountain road, or a champion tennis player returning a 100 mph serve.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth.../dp/B003P2WJ18
    There is no question it takes practice to be very good at anything.

    If you have the book, can you tell us the background of the author? The blurb on the book talks about his astounding summer--doesn't sound like his has practiced something over a very long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    How do you master facing multiple opponents in different situations with different degrees of competency, different weapons?

    Certainly not like driving a car on a paved road, and could not perform seemingly without thinking on a narrow curving mountain road with no guardrails, or a torn up road with tire busting pot holes....

    There is a quality of mind that makes some archers (or in any sport) consistently better than others despite learning the constituent parts.
    The 'quality of mind' is called practice, lots of practice and experience.

    That is how you determine how and who is going to attack in multiple opponent situations. Or driving on a mountain road, or a champion tennis player returning a 100 mph serve.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth.../dp/B003P2WJ18
    Last edited by Surrey; 20 Nov 17, 03:08.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    My interest is in the role of the mind in zen archery. I am not using a bow; rather, I am a shooter in the French game of petanque. With twenty plus years experience in various eastern martial arts and weapons, I never pursued zen archery, but I have an appreciation of the eastern mind in this art and believe it has an applicability for a western 'shooter'
    in petanque for aiming and throwing a 72-76mm steel ball (boule in French) to strike and knock out a target ball (72-76mm) at distances between 6 to 10 plus meters. Perfect hit on the target can result in the shooting ball replacing the target ball (which usually held a scoring point).
    FYI ~ petanque
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9tanque

    Leave a comment:

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