Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What kind of melee weapon would people carry today?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Frtigern View Post
    That's quite a lot.
    True, I likely wouldn't carry them all at once all the time. Likely just the knives and tomahawk for being out and about on the town. If I was travelling somewhere out of the places I'm used to, or any long distance travel, then I'd be bringing my swords as well.

    To me it's always been a cross between the motto of 'Be Prepared' and "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it'
    BoRG
    "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

    Comment


    • #47
      If I have to carry it day to day then given I spend what feels like half the day leaping in and out of trains and on and off buses then the weapon of choice has to be compact. So I'd go for one of thesehttps://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=SCiHU8-7N8fHPOvYgaAK&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DR2nFeeONnpg&cd=1&ved=0CCoQtwIwAA&usg=A FQjCNFxJaQZVa3NQmdHTbK0mRNb2-bX9g&sig2=rwvSOu-LfKx0BU90jVmwQA

      If your in a confined space nothing says "go away and stop bothering me" like a cutlass. On fomal occasions I would of course accompany it with a boarding axe https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&so...01453565187542.
      "Sometimes its better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness" T Pratchett

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Kendoka Girl View Post
        What sort of "world" are we assumed to be living in? Would it be a pre-gunpowder world or the modern world without firearms?
        The OP says that everything else remains unchanged. Our world with no firearms but with lots of melee weapons.

        I haul that gear to martial arts practice several times a week along with Bogu or kendo armor.
        My hat's off to you, then.
        Michele

        Comment


        • #49
          Walking around prepared can already get you into trouble with the law. If one had martial arts training in unarmed combat and got into a fight and god forbid win, that will be held against you.
          The Swiss Army knife I carry is being frowned upon.
          Forget about using harsh language. You might do some emotional damage.
          Suing is the norm these days.
          Reality sucks man.
          Ed.
          Last edited by dutched; 29 May 14, 16:12.
          The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kendoka Girl View Post
            Given hand/melee weapons only I'd go with the traditional samurai gear, katana, wakizashi, tanto, kozuke, and a jo as a walking stick. It would give me reasonable reach, close in weapons, some armor penetration, both edged and impact weaponry, and non-lethal capability. Plus, this is what I am most familiar with.

            I am pretty good with the nunchaku. I prefer the so setsu kon nunchaku, it's one long stick and a short stick.




            I'm pretty decent with the san setsu kon nunchaku, which is the 3 sectional staff.


            "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

            "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Persephone View Post
              I am pretty good with the nunchaku. I prefer the so setsu kon nunchaku, it's one long stick and a short stick.




              I'm pretty decent with the san setsu kon nunchaku, which is the 3 sectional staff.


              And this thread is one long Bore! No, I know that I don't have to read it but I keep hoping that another contributor will suddenly grow up and say for Gods sake you guys give it a rest and I do hope to see it when it happens. lcm1
              'By Horse by Tram'.


              I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
              " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                And this thread is one long Bore! No, I know that I don't have to read it but I keep hoping that another contributor will suddenly grow up and say for Gods sake you guys give it a rest and I do hope to see it when it happens. lcm1
                Without your ancient experience, younger street-fighters like us have to show our blam.

                I don't care what spears or nunchucks others are carrying. I drive American steel. If that don't work, I also have a roll of American quarters stuffed into the last sock made in America with American cotton...........

                Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                Prayers.

                BoRG

                http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                  Without your ancient experience, younger street-fighters like us have to show our blam.

                  I don't care what spears or nunchucks others are carrying. I drive American steel. If that don't work, I also have a roll of American quarters stuffed into the last sock made in America with American cotton...........

                  Ah yes,do you know I once carried a home made 'blackjack' for years and later a knuckleduster.I acquired some respect around the more seedy areas of my 'Hometown' amongst the 'half bent' characters that lived there and spent there holidays in Lewes jail. lcm1
                  'By Horse by Tram'.


                  I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                  " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                    Fortunately for the world, the sort of master instructors that can teach someone that level of skill with the Katana (or any other long sword be it saber, Espada Ropera, longsword, talwar, scimitar, etc) rarely churn out the type of student that wants to take their newfound skills and go attack someone. Such mastery of the weapon typically comes with a mastery of self control and discipline, and usually some sort of code to adhere to.

                    Not to question you, but to gather more information, and show my ignorance of Japanese martial terms, about how much separation would you say you'd reasonably need between yourself and your opponent to be able to draw your katana and clear the scabbard....for one of those famous draw---cut deals? About how fast could you draw (roughly, down to say the half-second) considering that you'd likely be starting from the walk or standing upright, with your hand at say chest height? Also, are there training regimens for deploying/utilizing the katana while someone is actively trying to obtain a grapple with you/take you down, or do you forget the katana and automatically transition to unarmed combat or your tanto at that point?

                    Also, since you're a practicioner of some skill, what would you practice as your training regimen for dealing with the following weapon attack: Close quarters (say 2m start with your opponent starting off in a rapid closing maneuver), opponent is attacking with a straight single-edged blade of wakizashi length (35-50cm) held overhand (like a sword) in short thrusts?
                    I can draw to a thrust, cut, or block in about a half second. The Okuden or advanced level of practice emphasizes quick draws and resheathes. One of the advantages of Iaido/Iaijutsu is the use of the curvature of the blade to facilitate the draw. It also employs a technique called saya biki in which you pull the scabbard backward which allows the tip to clear 6+" sooner than if you had not done the technique. A close in thrust or cut can then be delivered in close proximity to your own body. Proper use of iaigoshi or the hip increases the power of draw cuts.

                    There is a whole body of techniques used in grappling - someone grabs your arm, your shirt, chokes you, grabs your weapon, etc. Aikido has a vast number of these and our ryuha has a set called Daishozume for this.

                    Some of the techniques used for close quarters/rapidly advancing opponents is katate kesagiri, a diagonal one handed cut from the draw; kiriage, an upward diagonal cut from groin to collarbone; tsukaate, use of the pommel/handle for strikes; or tsuki, a close in thrust (using saya biki and an aggressive hip turn you can bring the tip to bear from the scabbard quickly with very little travel of the blade).

                    In using a kodachi (short sword), we are taught to seize the initiative and be aggressive against a longer weapon. Conversely, with tachi (long sword), you cannot yield the initiative against a shorter weapon. The tsuki or thrust has always been one of my preferred attacks in this situation. It utilizes the reach advantage of the tachi and causes enough concern on the part of the opponent in that one mistake on his part would be fatal. I've used this against very aggressive opponents in kendo and changed their game to my advantage.
                    TTFN

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by lcm1 View Post
                      And this thread is one long Bore! No, I know that I don't have to read it but I keep hoping that another contributor will suddenly grow up and say for Gods sake you guys give it a rest and I do hope to see it when it happens. lcm1
                      Because there something so much more classy, intimate and exciting about melee fights. Anyone can get a gun and shoot someone, but to wield a melee weapon and have the guts to brutally maim someone is on another level. To best an opponent who thinks he's at an advantage is a feeling of accomplishment not much can match. To experience the fear of death and come out surviving is the most primal high. To do it with our hands and to feel and look into our opponents eyes as he passes this world gives fighting a whole different character. It makes us value life so much more when you have experienced taking it. But maybe I'm sensationalizing it too much. Some may become blood thirsty and enjoy killing, and some people want to avoid killing even if they are the best swordsman alive.
                      The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        'an some of us just like talking about swords.
                        ------
                        'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                        If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Kendoka Girl View Post
                          I can draw to a thrust, cut, or block in about a half second. The Okuden or advanced level of practice emphasizes quick draws and resheathes. One of the advantages of Iaido/Iaijutsu is the use of the curvature of the blade to facilitate the draw. It also employs a technique called saya biki in which you pull the scabbard backward which allows the tip to clear 6+" sooner than if you had not done the technique. A close in thrust or cut can then be delivered in close proximity to your own body. Proper use of iaigoshi or the hip increases the power of draw cuts.

                          There is a whole body of techniques used in grappling - someone grabs your arm, your shirt, chokes you, grabs your weapon, etc. Aikido has a vast number of these and our ryuha has a set called Daishozume for this.

                          Some of the techniques used for close quarters/rapidly advancing opponents is katate kesagiri, a diagonal one handed cut from the draw; kiriage, an upward diagonal cut from groin to collarbone; tsukaate, use of the pommel/handle for strikes; or tsuki, a close in thrust (using saya biki and an aggressive hip turn you can bring the tip to bear from the scabbard quickly with very little travel of the blade).

                          In using a kodachi (short sword), we are taught to seize the initiative and be aggressive against a longer weapon. Conversely, with tachi (long sword), you cannot yield the initiative against a shorter weapon. The tsuki or thrust has always been one of my preferred attacks in this situation. It utilizes the reach advantage of the tachi and causes enough concern on the part of the opponent in that one mistake on his part would be fatal. I've used this against very aggressive opponents in kendo and changed their game to my advantage.
                          Constantly remind me to NEVER pi$$ you off..........

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
                            Constantly remind me to NEVER pi$$ you off..........

                            I'd agree.

                            The only downside to any of the major sword traditions is that it takes years of practice and dedication to be good. Now I'm not sure about competent.

                            Kendoka girl, how long, in your estimation would it take someone to be passably competent in your chosen style? Say under these three scenarios:

                            ... training four days a week for 3-6 hours
                            ...training three days a week for an hour
                            ...training in a big class for 2-3 days a week

                            I'm figuring that until you reach a certain skill level that walking around with a sword is really more of a death sentence from any competent jerk.

                            Also, I'd apply KG's times to rapier, or longsword or Tulwar, among others, as well. I don't think that the Japanese arts would be particularly more difficult to become passable in. Maybe to master certain portions (certainly they're more stylistic than the European arts), but the cuts, blocks, and moves to save your life in a quick fight wouldn't be hugely different in skill level required between the major disciplines

                            I guess the big question would be if any particular sword (or other medium-sized weapon) styles lent themselves to rapid acquisition of a passable skillset. Maybe quarterstaff/cane/bo? Or one of the 'backsword' styles like the naval cutlass or the cavalry saber? Quite a bit more rough and tumble there, with punching someone in the face with the guard being perfectly acceptable.

                            http://armscollectors.com/mgs/cutlasses.htm

                            While we're most familiar with the 1860-1917 types, I'd like to draw your attention to the 1841 type as a possible contender for 'generally seen civvie blade'. Note the shorter length, simple fittings, etc. The failing with the model in 1841 was that it was heavy (and it is, I've wielded one, much less balanced than the 1860 despite being smaller). But with a more narrow profile blade (maybe diamond-shaped cross section and straight from hilt to point rather than wasp-shaped, which would give it more even footing against rapiers) it could be a very viable contender if it was easier to teach someone to be effective with it.
                            Last edited by TacCovert4; 31 May 14, 23:36.
                            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Frtigern View Post
                              Because there something so much more classy, intimate and exciting about melee fights. Anyone can get a gun and shoot someone, but to wield a melee weapon and have the guts to brutally maim someone is on another level. To best an opponent who thinks he's at an advantage is a feeling of accomplishment not much can match. To experience the fear of death and come out surviving is the most primal high. To do it with our hands and to feel and look into our opponents eyes as he passes this world gives fighting a whole different character. It makes us value life so much more when you have experienced taking it. But maybe I'm sensationalizing it too much. Some may become blood thirsty and enjoy killing, and some people want to avoid killing even if they are the best swordsman alive.
                              Hi Fg, read my #53, how's that,more along the line you are on about? lcm1
                              'By Horse by Tram'.


                              I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                              " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                                I'd agree.

                                The only downside to any of the major sword traditions is that it takes years of practice and dedication to be good. Now I'm not sure about competent.

                                Kendoka girl, how long, in your estimation would it take someone to be passably competent in your chosen style? Say under these three scenarios:

                                ... training four days a week for 3-6 hours
                                ...training three days a week for an hour
                                ...training in a big class for 2-3 days a week

                                I'm figuring that until you reach a certain skill level that walking around with a sword is really more of a death sentence from any competent jerk.

                                Also, I'd apply KG's times to rapier, or longsword or Tulwar, among others, as well. I don't think that the Japanese arts would be particularly more difficult to become passable in. Maybe to master certain portions (certainly they're more stylistic than the European arts), but the cuts, blocks, and moves to save your life in a quick fight wouldn't be hugely different in skill level required between the major disciplines

                                I guess the big question would be if any particular sword (or other medium-sized weapon) styles lent themselves to rapid acquisition of a passable skillset. Maybe quarterstaff/cane/bo? Or one of the 'backsword' styles like the naval cutlass or the cavalry saber? Quite a bit more rough and tumble there, with punching someone in the face with the guard being perfectly acceptable.

                                http://armscollectors.com/mgs/cutlasses.htm

                                While we're most familiar with the 1860-1917 types, I'd like to draw your attention to the 1841 type as a possible contender for 'generally seen civvie blade'. Note the shorter length, simple fittings, etc. The failing with the model in 1841 was that it was heavy (and it is, I've wielded one, much less balanced than the 1860 despite being smaller). But with a more narrow profile blade (maybe diamond-shaped cross section and straight from hilt to point rather than wasp-shaped, which would give it more even footing against rapiers) it could be a very viable contender if it was easier to teach someone to be effective with it.
                                That is exactly the point that I would use to argue against katana as a common melee weapon. It has a long learning curve to use well. One of the common practitioner errors of the first year to two years of training is chopping rather than slicing, which is likely to bend the blade on impact or get the blade stuck in the target, or do little damage. Ideally, the cut should be elliptical in motion and strike the target at high angle rather than perpendicular to the target surface. The edge then drags down the target surface to slice. The other difficult skill to master is "hasuji" or aligning the cutting edge into the target, especially when delivering rapid cuts from different angles. Many beginners will hit with the flat of the blade, reducing the weapon to that of a club.

                                I train three days a week for 2.5 hours each session and it took about three years to feel that I could deliver a truly effective cut. I became competitive in kendo after a year, but I had years of fencing and aikido under my belt prior. The tactical concepts are the same - distance, timing, tempo, initiative. One art made me much better at the others. One advantage that aikido has given me is the ability to step off the line at the last moment and deliver an effective counterattack.

                                I've heard of "uchi-deshi" programs in Japan for aikido at the Iwama Dojo in which they train every day for several hours a day. Generally, one can make Shodan in a year and be competent in the basic techniques.

                                I sort of divide the art into three sections - physical, mental, and spiritual. The physical is the easiest to learn and encompases the actual techniques and movements, footwork, cuts and parries, etc. The mental is the application of tactics, maneuver, angle, pressure, etc. I am just starting to get a feel for the spiritual in which I can feel what an opponent is going to do or sense the change in his energy as he shifts into an attack or sometimes even changes in his breathing from hesitation.

                                I like (and mentioned) the jo staff as it has some weapon advantages and is also much easier to learn than the sword, but many of the techniques overlap making staff and sword complementary arts.
                                TTFN

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X