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Map showing Polish plan of attack on Denmark and the Netherlands during Cold War.

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  • #16
    Sorry, a litte off track, but if the Cold War had turned hot, and the Warsaw pact countries decided to use tactical nuclear weapons, obviously NATO forces would respond. If it did not end in a full blown nuclear war and was limited only to tactical nukes, both sides would be hitting targets in the Germany/Poland area. This might have created a irradiated nuclear wall between the two forces, or possibly pockets of irradiated areas and a complicated series of paths through non-irradiated areas. Either would make an interesting war scenario. Just my opinion.

    I'd like to see a game that followed through with this theory. Would be interesting to look at your options. Either charge your forces through the radiation and suffer heavy casualties, or try to find an alternative route.
    Last edited by Bowcaster; 17 Dec 12, 17:43.
    ביוני אני עולה לישראל! ברוך השם! בקרוב אני אהיה חייל

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hutun View Post
      Could you please translate the title of the map? Some details on the map origin would be also useful.
      The title of these map is:
      Plan of the offensive operations of the 'Northern' seaside Front.

      Originally posted by hutun View Post
      The whole map looks like a map for the military games, not like a strategic map.
      It's a part of an operational map, signed personally by gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski.

      Originally posted by hutun View Post
      I dont't beleive that in the 1970s there were plans to start the war and attack Europe using Polish army etc. This seems to be the map taken out of the context. And without a context it's just a hot meal for the nowadays yellow press.
      It Doesn't Matter What You Believe - facts only matter. Armies of the Warsaw Pact, due to the Soviet's strategic plans would be used as a first echelon [number of the Polish Army at that time was estimated at 1 mln soldiers] - second will be... 2 millions Russians.



      Above. Part of a map showing the seizure plan of Copenhagen.



      Above. Plan of the offensive operations of the 'Northern' seaside Front.

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      • #18
        Combat on the Inner German Border Front

        Hello
        It is interesting to speculate on the weapons effects in the event of a Warsaw Pact thrust across the Inner German Border (IGB), especially in wargame scenarios.

        Of course, in this instance, the focus is on tactical nuclear weapons, tho' it appears one sided with the Soviets employing them. On the other hand, there was thinking in NATO about using tac nukes, and an edition of the USArmy's 100-5 Operations manual had a graphic showing the timing need for nuclear release.

        There is another perspective, though, rarely mentioned: the reality of "the electric piranha", strongpoints (usually villages) within which the NATO forces positioned their anti-tank systems. Such a reality would have likely resulted in massive, burning and exploding junk piles across the North German Plain and in the various gaps - Fulda, Chubb - which would have restricted, and severely constrained the doctrinally-directed maneuvering of the onrushing Warsaw Pact armored vehicle hordes, especially the 2nd Echelons.
        RedDagger18

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        • #19
          Hi Stachiewicz,

          I don't know if you saw my post above, but I'm very interested in getting hold of a copy of the map you and Aquila are posting pictures of. Do you have a full size copy or know where I can get a hold of one?

          I wanted to write you and Aquila a PM, but I guess I need a higher post count to be able to.

          You can reach me at emil [at] emilryge dot dk

          I would really appreciate it.

          Regards,

          Emil

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RedDagger18 View Post
            ...There is another perspective, though, rarely mentioned: the reality of "the electric piranha", strongpoints (usually villages) within which the NATO forces positioned their anti-tank systems. Such a reality would have likely resulted in massive, burning and exploding junk piles across the North German Plain and in the various gaps - Fulda, Chubb - which would have restricted, and severely constrained the doctrinally-directed maneuvering of the onrushing Warsaw Pact armored vehicle hordes, especially the 2nd Echelons.
            RedDagger18
            NATO plans, short of nukes and bio/chem weapons were something of a joke. There was no way NATO could have had the means in the 50s-early 80s of stopping a Soviet attack. Since Soviet doctrine called for used of full NBC first strike options the NATO defences would ahve been in shreds with no hope of reinforcement.

            The WP forces in the north would have been on the Rhine in days and encircling the centre soon after if NATO did not bolt for French border. NATO's collapse would follow soon after. NATO's only hope was for an immediate retaliation both on the battlefield and on line of cimmunication points all the way back to Minsk - at that point its "end of days"

            "Fight like hell for three days then blow up the world" - that's how we put itback in the day.

            Thanksfully the SU never had any real intention of attacking the west, being more worried about a NATO strike as they were.
            The Purist

            Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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            • #21


              What a coincidence. That looks exactly like one of the maps I drew on in my 9th Grd social studies textbook.
              As a matter of fact, let me go check something real quick......
              .OMG, that is my map! The Poles stole my invasion plans!!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by mremil View Post
                Hi Stachiewicz,

                I don't know if you saw my post above, but I'm very interested in getting hold of a copy of the map you and Aquila are posting pictures of. Do you have a full size copy or know where I can get a hold of one?

                I wanted to write you and Aquila a PM, but I guess I need a higher post count to be able to.

                You can reach me at emil [at] emilryge dot dk

                I would really appreciate it.

                Regards,

                Emil
                By chance I can push this thread a bit:
                The magazine you re looking for is "Polska Zbrojna" number 18-19 (744-745) of May 1st 2011.
                Polska Zbrojna site is here: http://www.polska-zbrojna.pl/home/magazineview
                And their contact e-mail: [email protected]

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                • #23
                  That it calls for the use of what looks like half a dozen nukes (the red bombs) is a bit scary. Looks like the Warsaw Pact and USSR were going to go nuclear early and in a big way.

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                  • #24
                    Maps like that are the reason I love history and play wargames.
                    "Look, a golden winged ship is passing my way"
                    And I really didn't have to stop...I just kept on going.

                    "Castles Made Of Sand"-Jimi Hendrix from Axis:Bold As Love 1967

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sgt.Pop View Post

                      By chance I can push this thread a bit:
                      The magazine you re looking for is "Polska Zbrojna" number 18-19 (744-745) of May 1st 2011.
                      Polska Zbrojna site is here: http://www.polska-zbrojna.pl/home/magazineview
                      And their contact e-mail: [email protected]
                      Could you please past link directly to that number

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bowcaster View Post
                        Sorry, a litte off track, but if the Cold War had turned hot, and the Warsaw pact countries decided to use tactical nuclear weapons, obviously NATO forces would respond. If it did not end in a full blown nuclear war and was limited only to tactical nukes, both sides would be hitting targets in the Germany/Poland area. This might have created a irradiated nuclear wall between the two forces, or possibly pockets of irradiated areas and a complicated series of paths through non-irradiated areas. Either would make an interesting war scenario. Just my opinion.

                        I'd like to see a game that followed through with this theory. Would be interesting to look at your options. Either charge your forces through the radiation and suffer heavy casualties, or try to find an alternative route.
                        The big effect would be logistics of course. Run your trucks through walls of radiation and pretty soon all your drivers are dead and whoever is not irradiated is without food, fuel and ammo.
                        Wisdom is personal

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                        • #27
                          Hi mates. As we all can see from map for invasion on Denmark Polish army was incharge. Does any one knows what would Soviet marine infantry from Baltic fleet and Baltic MD stationated VDV division would do in case of war?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Karri View Post
                            The big effect would be logistics of course. Run your trucks through walls of radiation and pretty soon all your drivers are dead and whoever is not irradiated is without food, fuel and ammo.
                            How would there not be virtually a solid wall of radiation? Even a small tactical nuke is guaranteed to kick up an immense field of contamination. A few such overlapping fields should easily ensure that much/most of the path is through contaminated air.
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