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  • Brecourt Manor

    I went to Brecourt Manor, where Winters took a squad and knocked out the 105mm battery, a la Band of Brothers. The guns were not placed in prepared trenches, with reinforced sides, but were instead implaced along one 200 meter long hedgerow, and settled into a drainage ditch. The lack of prepared defensive positions meant that the position was invisible from the air, and intelligence was not aware of the battery before D-Day. Striking to me was that the assault reportedly took 2 hours...just to move down one hedgerow 200 meters long, albeit under MG fire from the next hedgerow, 150-200 meters to the rear. This revelation, while actually seeing the size of the ground fought over, again has me thinking a lot about the speed of actual WW2 combat, and the pace at which tactics typically played out. Remember, this action is still stuidied at West Point as an excellent example of fire and maneuver. Nobody ever told me that this action took 2 (they apparently sent back for more ammunition at least once during the engagement), and again has me wondering how well wargamers understand tactics as actually practiced. At the very least, the Band of Brothers episode is very decieving.



    The shot is taken from the main east-west road leading into the farm, and looking north. The actual farm buildings are just 20 meters behind you, as you look at this picture.

    The hedgerow on the right is where the German guns were emplaced. It may be hard to judge distance from a photo, but again it is about 200 meters long. The American attack started at the far end of this hedgerow, and worked down. German MGs fired from the next hedgerow to the left, or east (not visible in this photo) as Winters made his attack.

    Here is a quick schematic I did to illustrate. Brown like is a road, green line is a hedge.


  • #2
    Excellent! :thumb:
    http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

    Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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    • #3
      Fantastic information runyan99!!

      This is what we want to see in here!

      Thanks for providing the schematic - I tried to replicate this action once in a custom Combat Mission scenario but sort of abandoned it half-way through. I might just have to go back and try again now you've provided this information.

      I'm surprised that the battle lasted two hours - as you say, if that's the case, the BoB episode is way out.

      Regards,

      Dr. S.
      Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

      www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

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      • #4
        Keep in mind that film and television tend to compress time to make the story move.

        So, let me ask you a question. If they were able to give the impression that the action took two hours, would it be any less incredible what was accomplished? Would the achievement been any less noteworthy?
        Retreat hell, we just got here. Every Marine, a rifleman.

        Never let the facts get in the way of the truth.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Iron Mike USMC
          Keep in mind that film and television tend to compress time to make the story move.

          So, let me ask you a question. If they were able to give the impression that the action took two hours, would it be any less incredible what was accomplished? Would the achievement been any less noteworthy?
          No, it wouldn't - in fact, I almost think the opposite might be true.

          By suggesting that the action only took 20 minutes or whatever, it *almost* suggests to me that it was too "easy".

          Now, I use that word with caution, because there's no way I could have done what those guys did, nor would I want to - but I am of the view that if the program had indicated the true length of time that the battle spanned, it would have shown how difficult combat of that nature could be - even more than the actual program indicated.

          Hope this makes sense.

          Dr. S.
          Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

          www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

          www.tabletown.co.uk

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          • #6
            Yeah, but I don't know if most people would think about how impressive it was that it took 2 hours to advance that far. I think the casual viewers would be say, "They took that long to do THAT!?"
            “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Overseer
              Yeah, but I don't know if most people would think about how impressive it was that it took 2 hours to advance that far. I think the casual viewers would be say, "They took that long to do THAT!?"
              Yes, I see what you are saying. Perhaps they were right to emphasise the tactics as they did.

              Dr. S.
              Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

              www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

              www.tabletown.co.uk

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              • #8
                Good job my friend

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                • #9
                  People now a days are expecting everything to be done in a quickend pace. From getting food to the War in Iraq. People do not realize how long an actual engagement can be. People think the Normandy landings lasted only 30 minutes, but in reality, it took around 5 hours for the men to move off the beaches and secure the area on top.
                  Govenour Of Texas and all southern provinces. Kepper Of The Holy Woodchipper.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah exactly. The whole normandy campaign was bout 60 days long wasn't it?

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                    • #11
                      You are correct nreese. The Normandy campaign took place till about 24th of July when the Failise breakout took place. Then all heck broke loose when the Germans finally left their fortified trenches. :crazy:
                      Govenour Of Texas and all southern provinces. Kepper Of The Holy Woodchipper.

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