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  • Devonshire & Norfolk vs. Eugen

    What would happen If Devonshire and Norfolk went up against PE? Could they handle her, and get a tow lines on her to keep her from helping her bigger/younger brother Bismarck in his last fight against KGV and Rodney?

    I guess what i was trying to ask is could they hold on to her with the towlines til, Bismarck got sank, then when K.G.V. and Rodney, take her back to Scapa flow, the four of them take her back with them. but if they able to get a prize crew on board, they dont have to two her, but say in a net around her, so she can't run for freedom, that's all I meant ok..

    What i mean by getting in a net around her. is with K.G.V., Rodney, on each flank and the two cruisers Weather its one or both Cruisers towing her! if she gets in to a wiggle and squirming mood, how do they handle her? Do you use the small guns are pop off at her or what??

    I haven't done a what if with eugen in a while, so BE nice, Plz. i know you guys thing i'm Shelfish with her, WE all have that one ship, that tugs at are heart, she's mine!

  • #2
    The Prinz Eugen could be taken by Devonshire and Norfolk. She would be sunk, though. I have not heard of any instance where such a large ship could be towed across the North Atlantic.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      hey Pruitt,
      then you add the DD's in and then what
      Nikki

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      • #4
        Nikki, we've gone over this with you several times in the past. Ships don't corral and capture other ships on the high seas anymore. The days of boarding parties and tying one ship to another went out with the age of sails. Trying to get that close to another ship of equal size while it is firing at you would cause too many deaths on both sides. You wouldn't want that, would you?

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        • #5
          Nikkie, you don't let the Destroyers get close until the enemy Cruiser is badly damaged and in danger of sinking. Japanese Torpedoes were usually 24" Long Lances that carried a larger warhead than Allied Torpedoes. German Cruisers can have 5.9" and 4.2" secondary weapons that could do serious damage to a Destroyer. American Torpedoes early in the war had defective firing pins and could also run deeper than set.

          Been doing okay, Nikkie?

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

          Comment


          • #6
            Guys,
            I haven't done a what if with eugen in a while, so BE nice, Plz. i know you guys thing i'm Shelfish with her, WE all have that one ship, that tugs at are heart, she's mine!
            Nikkie

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johns624 View Post
              Nikki, we've gone over this with you several times in the past. Ships don't corral and capture other ships on the high seas anymore. The days of boarding parties and tying one ship to another went out with the age of sails.
              The last time the RN boarded and captured a warship of any size was in 1900 when Roger Keyes led a boarding party onto a Chinese destroyer. However it was not on the highs seas but moored in a river estuary so this was in effect a cutting out party. I have a feeling that some modern Chinese warships may have been taken by boarding in the first Sino Japanese war in the late 19th century.

              The Altmark was boarded in WW2 but she wasn't a warship
              Last edited by MarkV; 13 May 19, 07:47.
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nikkie View Post
                What would happen If Devonshire and Norfolk went up against PE? Could they handle her, and get a tow lines on her to keep her from helping her bigger/younger brother Bismarck in his last fight against KGV and Rodney?

                I guess what i was trying to ask is could they hold on to her with the towlines til, Bismarck got sank, then when K.G.V. and Rodney, take her back to Scapa flow, the four of them take her back with them. but if they able to get a prize crew on board, they dont have to two her, but say in a net around her, so she can't run for freedom, that's all I meant ok..

                What i mean by getting in a net around her. is with K.G.V., Rodney, on each flank and the two cruisers Weather its one or both Cruisers towing her! if she gets in to a wiggle and squirming mood, how do they handle her? Do you use the small guns are pop off at her or what??

                I haven't done a what if with eugen in a while, so BE nice, Plz. i know you guys thing i'm Shelfish with her, WE all have that one ship, that tugs at are heart, she's mine!
                Nikki, PE wasn't around to help Bismarck in his/her last fight against KGV and Rodney anyway, he/she had been detached then had engine problems, a common occurrence with the steam plants of major German post-WWI built warships. If PE had been present, whipped and disabled off the French Coast, the RN would've fired what torpedoes (it was Dorsetshire, Devonshire wasn't present) they had left at him/her and skedaddled, just like they did with Bismarck.
                "I am Groot"
                - Groot

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                • #9
                  Guys,
                  I'm never going to be able to explain what she really mean to me :'(
                  Nikki

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nikkie View Post
                    What would happen If Devonshire and Norfolk went up against PE? Could they handle her, and get a tow lines on her to keep her from helping her bigger/younger brother Bismarck in his last fight against KGV and Rodney?

                    I guess what i was trying to ask is could they hold on to her with the towlines til, Bismarck got sank, then when K.G.V. and Rodney, take her back to Scapa flow, the four of them take her back with them. but if they able to get a prize crew on board, they dont have to two her, but say in a net around her, so she can't run for freedom, that's all I meant ok..

                    What i mean by getting in a net around her. is with K.G.V., Rodney, on each flank and the two cruisers Weather its one or both Cruisers towing her! if she gets in to a wiggle and squirming mood, how do they handle her? Do you use the small guns are pop off at her or what??

                    I haven't done a what if with eugen in a while, so BE nice, Plz. i know you guys thing i'm Shelfish with her, WE all have that one ship, that tugs at are heart, she's mine!
                    Devonshire was in Liverpool refitting on 27 May, 1941. You mean Dorsetshire.

                    In point of fact, the RN were able to deploy two battleships (Rodney & KGV), three cruisers (Norfolk, Dorsetshire, & Sheffield) and six destroyers (Cossack, Sikh, Maori, Mashona, Tartar, and the Polish manned Piorun) against Bismarck. In addition, Tovey could have brought back the battlecruiser Renown, and called for a further air strike by Ark Royal's Swordfish, had there been any need.

                    In point of fact, Bismarck had been reduced from a battleship to a target within less than 20 minutes, largely by Rodney, and the rest of the action was more in the way of an execution than a battle.

                    Prinz Eugen had long departed, being detached by Lutjens to operate independently, before developing the engine defects which were characteristic of the class, and, wisely, sneaking off back to France, never again to make any meaningful contribution to the German war effort, unless shelling the Russian army from the Baltic later in the war, counts. If she had been present on 27 May, 1941, Bob Ballard would have been able to film her wreck at the same time as he filmed that of Bismarck.

                    You have an idiosyncratic view of naval warfare in WW2. No-one intended to tow the wrecked Bismarck anywhere, still less would anyone have tried to tow/board Prinz Eugen had she still been around. The days of Horatio Hornblower had long passed.

                    The British wanted Bismarck resting safely on the Atlantic seabed, and whether she eventually ended up there as a result of the combined efforts of Tovey's fleet, or whether her demise was hastened by scuttling, was a matter of sublime indifference to the Admiralty.

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                    • #11
                      Guys,
                      I'm never going to be able to explain what she really mean to me :'(

                      Hey Doveton
                      Yes, I meant Dorsetshire , :-) Devonshire took her back to Germany in 45 :-)
                      Nikki

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                        The last time the RN boarded and captured a warship of any size was in 1900 when Roger Keyes led a boarding party onto a Chinese destroyer. However it was not on the highs seas but moored in a river estuary so this was in effect a cutting out party. I have a feeling that some modern Chinese warships may have been taken by boarding in the first Sino Japanese war in the late 19th century.

                        The Altmark was boarded in WW2 but she wasn't a warship
                        Hi Mark

                        I suppose we could also include those French ships boarded in the ports of southern England, as part of Op.Catapult.
                        Most of the boarding parties were made up of RN personnel, with the Army also on hand.
                        Obviously, this wasn't on the High seas

                        Regards

                        Andy H
                        "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                        "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nikkie View Post
                          Guys,
                          I haven't done a what if with eugen in a while, so BE nice, Plz. i know you guys thing i'm Shelfish with her, WE all have that one ship, that tugs at are heart, she's mine!
                          Nikkie
                          The best they could hope for would be to entangle her propellers,- somehow.....
                          submarines were boarded on the high seas in World war two, after they had surfaced and the crew was attempting to escape. This was usually not possible with warships, since the high freeboard precluded getting a hostile boarding party aboard until the seacocks were well flooded.
                          Hope this helps...
                          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Andy H View Post

                            Hi Mark

                            I suppose we could also include those French ships boarded in the ports of southern England, as part of Op.Catapult.
                            Most of the boarding parties were made up of RN personnel, with the Army also on hand.
                            Obviously, this wasn't on the High seas

                            Regards

                            Andy H
                            Stretching almost to breaking point, I know, but how about U570?

                            Not to be confused with the film U571, by the way. When the world makes me Supreme Overlord, one of my first actions will be to have all copies of that horror destroyed and the writer horse whipped with the largest horse I can find!!!!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Doveton Sturdee View Post

                              Stretching almost to breaking point, I know, but how about U570?

                              Not to be confused with the film U571, by the way. When the world makes me Supreme Overlord, one of my first actions will be to have all copies of that horror destroyed and the writer horse whipped with the largest horse I can find!!!!
                              that would be worth paying money to see....the horse whipping, I mean....
                              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                              Comment

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