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One IJN Division vs. ISIS

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  • #76
    Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
    They did use bicycles, but they also had about 1,000 trucks. Bicycles were an "in addition to," not an "instead of" when it came to motorization, as they were particularly useful in navigating the jungle terrain.
    Well... you did say I could have up to 1500 trucks, which sounds like a lot for one Japanese Div, and nowhere near enough to make one Brigade fully mobile.

    Bob, you have done great work here, but my head is spinning with all these options and variables. In about 48 hours I hope to have a FULL to&e for this Division based partly on the information you have provided.
    Trucks need to be apportioned to support units first, such as Water Purification and Logistics. Once this exhaustive table is up for you to see, we can go over it and assemble task forces, I'm thinking of giving you the 6th Regiment, which will have 2 of the 4 Strengthened Battalions I am allowing this Division.

    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    4 weeks with no external supply or support from the outside? Against a body of guerillass armed with modern assault rifles and main battle tanks?
    ISIS's "external" supply ain't much to crow about either.



    Originally posted by craven View Post
    yes because the Japanese never moved to the corp organization as their main unit of combat they retained everything that normally would be at the corp level at the Divisional level. Every division is a self functioning unit.

    ie logistics, support, engineering and all that other stuff
    Right, once again, I'll be getting to that soon, but its a lot of stuff to go over. But at least I have firm guidlines to go by.

    And Gents, I'm taking the IJA approach here since it suits my basic theme; for the 1st time, ISIS is going to be confronted with an enemy with the will to win, and the skills to do so.
    Its not about equipment. If it was, I'd want something else.


    And I'd like to minimize the whole propaganda efforts and so on, at least at the start.



    Agreed?

    BTW- ISIS commanders-
    Abu Suleiman al-Naser
    (Current Head of Military Council)

    Abu Omar al-Shishani
    (Field Commander in Syria)
    Abu Waheeb
    (Commander in Anbar, Iraq)
    Last edited by The Exorcist; 23 Dec 15, 15:28.
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

    Comment


    • #77
      Also, how are we going to factor in "allied" forces for both sides, like local tribesmen, Peshmerga, the FSA, the Iraqi Army, Western airstrikes, etc? If it's all of the above PLUS the IJA division, then things might go pretty smoothly. But if its just ONE reinforced Japanese division vs. ALL of ISIS with NO outside support, my opinion is that the prospects look bleak for the Japanese for reasons of geography. We'll have to do something about the time constraint as well.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
        Also, how are we going to factor in "allied" forces for both sides, like local tribesmen, Peshmerga, the FSA, the Iraqi Army, Western airstrikes, etc? If it's all of the above PLUS the IJA division, then things might go pretty smoothly. But if its just ONE reinforced Japanese division vs. ALL of ISIS with NO outside support, my opinion is that the prospects look bleak for the Japanese for reasons of geography. We'll have to do something about the time constraint as well.
        I strongly disagree.
        There is a limit to what we can do here, and the time constraint is to eliminate that issue. I'm counting on shock to keep the Politicians out of it, it takes them half that long to come up with the next good lie.
        And there is a limit to what one simple little wargame and its Umpires can encompass. Take my word for it, I have been down this road before, and the game can be stopped cold by these complications and endless arguments about every little detail.

        And having the Jackals swoop in to pick up the pieces is a given. There will not be any new Empire of Japan in the desert, I have a plan.

        But even with that... the variables are endless.
        Where to start? Driving ISIS westards only throws them into the arms of Turkey, their best buddies that has a common border with them. Start in the middle of nowhere? Jordan maybe?
        Well, at least I have the TO&E nearly done, perhaps in too much detail... but the recon group is puzzling me and creating a mobile sub-group is really stretching the truck supply.

        Hell no, lets just leave it a 1-1 thing, unless you want this game to last 2 years, if it lasts at all.
        "Why is the Rum gone?"

        -Captain Jack

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
          I strongly disagree.
          There is a limit to what we can do here, and the time constraint is to eliminate that issue. I'm counting on shock to keep the Politicians out of it, it takes them half that long to come up with the next good lie.
          And there is a limit to what one simple little wargame and its Umpires can encompass. Take my word for it, I have been down this road before, and the game can be stopped cold by these complications and endless arguments about every little detail.

          And having the Jackals swoop in to pick up the pieces is a given. There will not be any new Empire of Japan in the desert, I have a plan.

          But even with that... the variables are endless.
          Where to start? Driving ISIS westards only throws them into the arms of Turkey, their best buddies that has a common border with them. Start in the middle of nowhere? Jordan maybe?
          Well, at least I have the TO&E nearly done, perhaps in too much detail... but the recon group is puzzling me and creating a mobile sub-group is really stretching the truck supply.

          Hell no, lets just leave it a 1-1 thing, unless you want this game to last 2 years, if it lasts at all.
          I'm saying one IJA division might not (read: doesn't) have the numbers to take and hold all that territory while simultaneously protecting its supply lines. ISIS will get crushed in a stand-up fight and the Japanese could probably take all the important strongholds, but the former's mobility and guerrilla tactics would mean hit and run raids through the desert on IJA supply lines (invariably concentrated on the few roads in the region) would be a fatal problem for any plans to advance such a distance with so limited a commitment. As we know from China, the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, the Philippines, etc. during WWII, taking the major towns and roadways by no means eliminates partisan activity in the countryside.

          An IJA "Army" or "Area Army" would stand a far more realistic chance of destroying ISIS within the allotted time than just a division. In north China it took the efforts of multiple Area Armies/Army Groups to suppress the ChiComs (granted they were far more numerous and better organized), but dedicated IJA COIN operations essentially amounted to depopulation. Such a thing would require massive human and material resources, far more than a reinforced division had on hand. Adding in the Peshmerga or allied militias would alleviate this to a degree, but then it wouldn't be "One IJA Division vs ISIS."

          My prediction for this wargame is that the IJA lunges where it may and eats up whatever is unfortunate enough to get caught in its path, but it would be like burrowing in quicksand. The body count on the Arab side would be tremendous and the middle eastern tribes would all soil their collective pants at the Japs' brutality, but in the end battle would largely be dictated by ISIS on ISIS' terms, with the Daesh fighters' advantage in mobility meaning they could choose to engage or disengage at any time and place of their choosing. The Japanese would be almost exclusively road-bound and sending forces out into the desert without limited knowledge of the terrain against a GPS-guided enemy would be even more costly than staying put in the cities. Ultimately our reinforced division, while being able to push here and there leaving piles of skulls in its wake, would be unable to bring about the complete destruction of ISIS for reasons of cold, hard logistics.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
            I'm saying one IJA division might not (read: doesn't) have the numbers to take and hold all that territory while simultaneously protecting its supply lines. ISIS will get crushed in a stand-up fight and the Japanese could probably take all the important strongholds, but the former's mobility and guerrilla tactics would mean hit and run raids through the desert on IJA supply lines (invariably concentrated on the few roads in the region) would be a fatal problem for any plans to advance such a distance with so limited a commitment....
            Here is my vision, as a good many posts show in this thread-

            What sets ISIS apart is that they are not a Guerrilla unit, they are the Caliphate. If they didn't have their territory, the would just another sorry gang of Jihadi thugs. Well... they are that, but control of all that land makes them more, don't you think?

            My plan is to plow the road, and let the others that hate ISIS fill in the void behind me as I move along. Doesn't matter if its Peshmerga, Jordan, the Syrian or Iraqi army or even the Russians.
            Supply lines? I intend to live off the land. Just as you suggested many times, I will take all sorts of things from ISIS. My main targets will be trucks and fuel, and once I have enough of those other weapons then Ammo will be a concern. This isn't an occupation or even a liberation; it is a swarm of Locusts devouring all enemies in it's path. Or, if everything goes well, a retro-virus that kills the disease and then moves on without taking charge or imposing anything on the place it has cleaned out.

            Yes, its going to be a damn difficult thing to pull off, a serious challenge, but this is how I want it. I am out to prove that you don't need modern or even current equipment to beat ISIS. Serious dedication and the actual skills required to make a real army is all that is needed.

            I feel confident about doing this, but there is the risk that it will fail. And that is what makes it worth trying... in addition to sticking another virtual fork in ISIS's eye.
            And who knows, maybe we can finally get some Japanese members for this site. Just imagine who this will look on Google searches.

            And last but not least, we are talking about transplanting a Division from WW2 into the end of 2015... we can't really take ourselves too seriously in this one.
            Here, let me make a post in this thread that sets the stage and gives this thing a starting point and a rationale'.
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #81
              Explanation and starting point-

              At the beginning of this year, two Japanese captives were brutally executed by ISIS, for the sake of a cash ransom.
              Departing into fiction at this point;
              An old man totters up to the Yasukuni Shrine and leaves a prayer written in his own blood. His family line has been ended, the last heir of his house was one of those killed in that awful desert. His prayer is for vengeance, and his last thoughts are of his father and uncles who fought in China during Japan's last war.
              The Gods hear, and this time they do something. Perhaps the method used is only to prove they have a sense of humor...

              December 1943; The IJA's 3rd Division has been pulled out of the battle of Changde early so that it can be reinforced and prepared for the many offensives that are planned for 1944. The reinforcements are folded into the experienced Division, but the change-over from horse-drawn transport to mechanized support is barely begun before something strange happens. It disappears as mysteriously as several Chinese Divisions did in that same theater.
              Full moon Christmas, 2015; The 3rd Division re-appears on the fringes of an Empire of evil. The men awaken as if from a dream, with only a hazy idea of where they are, and why. One image in their minds is clear; they must pass through the White Gate, and that Gate is on the other side of this Caliphate that stands against the world.
              Contact is made with the local inhabitants of this war-torn wasteland, and Officers speaking English can communicate with them. The new situation is absorbed by the men, and with a mystical sense of destiny much like what they had entered that distant war with, they set about preparing for a New Year's offensive that will be fought by rules that are familiar to them... and unknown to this part of the world.
              Foul weather and their own experience at hiding themselves from the 14th Airforce help conceal their presence from the outside world, and information provided by the locals guide their initial moves. However, no real rapport emerges; the local people have met promising foreigners before only to be disappointed. For their part, the soldiers of Imperial Japan have never had much respect for (or confidence in) the indigenous people of any land.
              In this, the will be very much alone.
              Just as they wish it to be.
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #82
                Ready when you are.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

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                • #83
                  i don't think a single IJA division could handle the sheer firepower of so many MGs and tanks.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Axis of Evil View Post
                    i don't think a single IJA division could handle the sheer firepower of so many MGs and tanks.
                    ISIS never had that many tanks, that could run. Maybe a dozen or so, we had a list of those somewhere.

                    I also posted the TO&E of the Division in the Game thread... but a year went by and I guess it's too late now.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

                    Comment

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