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Late 15th Century Italian Army

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    With the benefit of hindsight (an AH perogative) the question is which direction is your army going to go - shock or firepower or both.
    Given that Lucca is only a tiny state and unable to compete with the big boys of Milan, Venice, Florence, Naples and the Papacy my advice would be to invest in massive walls.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    The 1470s,,, tough times.

    Local politics aside, you have a real problem with the Turks. Wallachia is standing firm, but they are lead by a real maniac with serious PR problems.
    Spain... they have some of the best infantry in the world, but they are much too busy finishing off the Moors to give you much help.

    Isn't this the age of John Huss and his fortress-wagons? I'd send a military mission on a tour of Central and Western Europe to study new developments, and also try to hire away some of the mercenary cannoniers from the Ottomans. Those guys were so efficient they would cast new gun-barrels while a siege was in progress, just to fire enemy cannonballs back at them!

    We need to get on top of new developments, then form a doctrine, then start spending money on it.
    Although the Hussite Wars are a little before this time period, missile and artillery armed Hussite war wagons are an option for Lucca given the flat area in the immediate vicinity of the city-state.

    Just after the period stated the Italian Wars erupted. This would see both France and Spain fighting over control over city Italian city states.

    The French used a shock army of Swiss pikemen ably supported by Gendarmes, reminiscent of Alexander the Greats Hypapists and Companions. He also brought along an artillery train. This combination destroyed the opposing Spanish/Milanese forces at the battle of Seminara 1494.

    This battle directly led to the rise of the Tercio, a unit of mixed foot (eg pikes, swordsmen and gunpowder firearms) that controlled the battlefield for the next 100 or so years.

    This in turn was defeated by Dutch firepower.

    With the benefit of hindsight (an AH perogative) the question is which direction is your army going to go - shock or firepower or both.

    If you can produce decent firepower with morale you will win. English longbowmen are the key here, and given the option of making enough monies they will be available. Their armament had improved to add shortsword and buckler in their armament, swordsmen being a decent option against pikes. Combine with relatively mobile artillery on wagons and you have a winner.

    Imo obviously

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    The Spanish were overhauling their army, re-introducing the swordsman to counter the pike.
    Small note, 'sword and buckler' troops were first used by Braccio da Montone in 1416 in an attack on Perugia. This type of troops were found in the Kingdom - itself under Spanish rule - and seem to have been exported back to Spain.

    As for the army and since English mercenaries are unavailable (TWOTR) I'd go for one strong in Shot, Hungarian horse archers, a few Pike and a corp of Knights - lanze spezzate elmetti.

    Not much different to what other Italian states were using really.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    The 1470s,,, tough times.

    Local politics aside, you have a real problem with the Turks. Wallachia is standing firm, but they are lead by a real maniac with serious PR problems.
    Spain... they have some of the best infantry in the world, but they are much too busy finishing off the Moors to give you much help.

    Isn't this the age of John Huss and his fortress-wagons? I'd send a military mission on a tour of Central and Western Europe to study new developments, and also try to hire away some of the mercenary cannoniers from the Ottomans. Those guys were so efficient they would cast new gun-barrels while a siege was in progress, just to fire enemy cannonballs back at them!

    We need to get on top of new developments, then form a doctrine, then start spending money on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    The 1470s,,, tough times.

    Local politics aside, you have a real problem with the Turks. Wallachia is standing firm, but they are lead by a real maniac with serious PR problems.
    Spain... they have some of the best infantry in the world, but they are much too busy finishing off the Moors to give you much help.

    Isn't this the age of John Huss and his fortress-wagons? I'd send a military mission on a tour of Central and Western Europe to study new developments, and also try to hire away some of the mercenary cannoniers from the Ottomans. Those guys were so efficient they would cast new gun-barrels while a siege was in progress, just to fire enemy cannonballs back at them!

    We need to get on top of new developments, then form a doctrine, then start spending money on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dashy
    replied
    I was merely jesting, i would try and secure Welsh Longbowmen and Swiss pikeman as the merc's, this was the golden hour, if that proved too hard then i would get stock merc's and arm them Spanish style, making those trecio things with alternating blocks of muskets and pikemen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by Dashy View Post
    Read Machiavelli, Merc's are a bad choice

    Sir John Hawkwood.

    We are talking only about a short term solution, and Machiavellis opinions I don't always share.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dashy
    replied
    Read Machiavelli, Merc's are a bad choice

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    started a topic Late 15th Century Italian Army

    Late 15th Century Italian Army

    It is the 1470s and you are a military advisor to the Republic of Lucca. Potential enemies are everywhere. Fortunately you are rich and can afford high quality mercenaries until you can build up your own forces.



    The 1470s were a time of great change and proven weaponary. The Spanish were overhauling their army, re-introducing the swordsman to counter the pike. The Swiss were considered unbeatable. Charles the Bold was introducing all the best features of all European forces into his own army such as French style Gendarmes and mounted Longbowmen.

    You are to give advice on the composition of the most effective field army of 10000 mercenaries (max 2000 mounted). You also have a reasonable artillery train if required and 1000 of the highest quality Condottieri, professional soldiers with the best weapons, armour and steeds available.

    Given the choice what would your army consist of, given that your usual enemies are Pisa and Milan, but could include those from further afield?

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