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Suppose Hitler Never Invades Russia

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  • Suppose Hitler Never Invades Russia

    Suppose German generals talk some sense into Hitler and he decides an invasion of Soviet Russia is not an option.

    How should Germany conduct the rest of the war, considering the situation in 1941? England is still on the defensive, the war in Africa is unresolved with one side then the other gaining an upper hand, Western Europe and Scandinavia occupied by Germany, the Soviet Union is German ally and it continues delivering strategic materials to Germany according to the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreements.

    If you were the German Commander in Chief and you concluded that an invasion of USSR is not an option, how would you conduct the war?

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    Occupy Europe, give it back, proclaim my satisfaction and avoid the USA.

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    • #3
      I think we just had that thread recently.
      "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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      • #4
        Stalin would eventually attack germany, it was only a matter of time.Lets assume if he does the germans are sure to lose East Prussia and the Romanian oilfields.Their loss will be crippling to the Reich.

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        • #5
          The biggest misfortune for Nazi Germany was not be able to deffeat the UK in 1940; Stalin would definitely attack the Germans when he had the change to do it...
          My Paintings at

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          • #6
            ^ It was beyond the military capability of germany in 1940 to defeat the british empire.It was outnumbered and outgunned in virtually all departments something that postwar allied propoganda tried to coverup.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JP Vieira View Post
              Stalin would definitely attack the Germans when he had the change to do it...
              I'm not sure about that. He might have considered it if Germany was in trouble but as long as Germany had a couple of million soldiers doing not much more than garrison duty in Europe I think he would have stayed his hand. If you look at Stalin's military adventures pre-1941 they were either predatory acts on small, indefensible countries or responses to aggression. Would he - a man that was terrified of his own people to the point of mass murder - really risk a major war against the only other (and successful) military machine in the region?
              Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

              That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                I'm not sure about that. He might have considered it if Germany was in trouble but as long as Germany had a couple of million soldiers doing not much more than garrison duty in Europe I think he would have stayed his hand. If you look at Stalin's military adventures pre-1941 they were either predatory acts on small, indefensible countries or responses to aggression. Would he - a man that was terrified of his own people to the point of mass murder - really risk a major war against the only other (and successful) military machine in the region?
                Stalin was very concerned with the image of the USSR. I doubt he ever contemplated an annihilating surprise attack, like the Russian version of Barbarossa. Stalin was really counting on a devastating war in Europe that would last years, set the continent on fire and wipe out a majority of the able-bodied men in their prime, leaving mostly militia units to oppose a Soviet move. With Europe looking like moonscape, Stalin's millions of soldiers would enter East Germany to "bring order to chaos", "protect the population from further excesses" and so on, as it happened in Poland in 1939.
                Last edited by MonsterZero; 04 Jul 10, 13:15.

                "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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                • #9
                  If the USSR attacked Germany. same history would happen.

                  If Germany went on to occupy Africa, Middle East, rest of Europe, MAYBE they could beat the USSR.

                  If they took the whole USSR, they could build up their navy and possibly invade the US.





                  The way I see it, without the Soviet Union, a Swastika flag would be flying over every major capital city right now.
                  "And now German generals find it hard to explain away their retreat."

                  -Georgi Zhukov

                  Proud Trotskyist, Theist, Anti-American, and Pro-Insurgent (not pro-terrorist).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dragunov View Post
                    The way I see it, without the Soviet Union, a Swastika flag would be flying over every major capital city right now.
                    Including Tokyo?

                    Seriously, Europe was about all that the Nazis could ever hope to control, and even that was a stretch.


                    It would be an interesting scenario to explore- USSR attacks Nazi Europe in 1942. They had a great jumping-off point, and without an enemy in reach, the Germans might have been disbanding many Divisions by then.

                    Would the Red Army have been smashed in an ill-conceived offensive and their own over-confidence, or would they have gone all the way to Paris before anyone knew what had hit them?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                      Suppose German generals talk some sense into Hitler and he decides an invasion of Soviet Russia is not an option.

                      How should Germany conduct the rest of the war, considering the situation in 1941? England is still on the defensive, the war in Africa is unresolved with one side then the other gaining an upper hand, Western Europe and Scandinavia occupied by Germany, the Soviet Union is German ally and it continues delivering strategic materials to Germany according to the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreements.

                      If you were the German Commander in Chief and you concluded that an invasion of USSR is not an option, how would you conduct the war?
                      Wrong!

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_socialism

                      "Anti-communism

                      Historians Ian Kershaw and Joachim Fest argue that in post-World War I Germany, the Nazis were one of many nationalist and fascistic political parties contending for the leadership of Germany’s anti-communist movement, and of the German state. The Nazis claimed that communism was dangerous to the well-being of nations because of its intention to dissolve private property, its support of class conflict, its aggression against the middle class, its hostility to small businessmen, and its atheism.[90] Nazism rejected class conflict-based socialism and economic egalitarianism, favouring instead a stratified economy with classes based on merit and talent, retaining private property, and the creation of national solidarity that transcends class distinction.[17]

                      During the late 1930s and the 1940s, several other anti-communist regimes and groups supported Nazism: the Falange in Spain; the Vichy regime and the Legion of French Volunteers against Bolshevism (Wehrmacht Infantry Regiment 638) in France; and the Cliveden set, Lord Halifax, and associates of Neville Chamberlain in Britain.[91]"




                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_kampf

                      "For example, Hitler announces his hatred of what he believed to be the world's twin evils: Communism and Judaism."
                      "Kdo dřív přijde, ten dřív mele."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thunder Dome View Post
                        Occupy Europe, give it back, proclaim my satisfaction and avoid the USA.
                        Wrong!

                        http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...3021403AAzkewE

                        "I believe it's likely the US would have entered the war even without the attack on Pearl Harbor. German submarines were attacking civilian ships supplying Britain, just as they did in WW1, and I see no reason why this would not have lead to the US declaring war on Germany just as it did in WW1."
                        "Kdo dřív přijde, ten dřív mele."

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                        • #13
                          I'm sorry, but Vaclav, is this all you do? Every one of your posts has been some nonsense that is loosely related to the topic. You say "Wrong!" then post a Wikipedia link and some description you find in it.

                          Troll, methinks.
                          "And now German generals find it hard to explain away their retreat."

                          -Georgi Zhukov

                          Proud Trotskyist, Theist, Anti-American, and Pro-Insurgent (not pro-terrorist).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dragunov View Post
                            I'm sorry, but Vaclav, is this all you do? Every one of your posts has been some nonsense that is loosely related to the topic. You say "Wrong!" then post a Wikipedia link and some description you find in it.

                            Troll, methinks.
                            Well, Troll is pretty strong, but somebody who starts and ends every single post the same way is close.

                            Somebody who never posts an original idea of his own and only criticizes other people is a Troll, and this newbie has not been around long enough to be judged yet.
                            But it's getting close.

                            Now, if the US had not been attacked, I doubt it would have become involved. In WW1 it took several years, and in WW2 the anti-war movemnt was even stronger.
                            The USSR attacking Germany would have complicated things greatly, and put Nazi Germany on the high ground, diplomatically.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                              Now, if the US had not been attacked, I doubt it would have become involved.
                              Wrong!

                              http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html


                              "Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack against Pearl Harbor -- all this is extensively documented and reasonably well known.[1]"
                              "Kdo dřív přijde, ten dřív mele."

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