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What if the Axis had captured Africa

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  • #76
    That is true - losses in the Med were serious and the Tiger Convoy re-supply mission was a great example, Crete and Malta were key given the range of air cover. However the Allies never lost complete control of North Africa and military operations in the Med were never truly "impossible", extrememly risky, yes, and politically distasteful maybe...

    If the Axis completely controlled North Africa, and by extension southern europe, any allied trafiic through the med would have been impossible. Torch would have been an entirely left-handed affair, perhaps a bigger operation out of British Iraq would have been an option.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
      And how could the UK influence the Med in a meaningful way with nothing but Gibraltar left?
      Black magic. But yes, if Africa, Mesopotamia, and Palestinia were lost to Britain, the only things the Brits could do to the Germans and Italians in the Med would be to give them some harsh language and ill-will. Such a victory could inspire Turkey to join the Axis, along with Persia which did indeed historically join the axis (only to be promptly invaded by the Soviets from central Asia and the Brits from Mesopotamia; or was it the British Raj?) only this time, Persia would stay long enough to add something meaningful to the conflict, like harassing the British Raj and Russia's southern territories.

      Of course, this would mean another Russo-turkish and Russo-persian war that would in all likelihood end very badly for the muslim nations.
      Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
      But who's to judge the right from wrong.
      When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
      That violence breeds violence.
      But in the end it has to be this way.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Czin View Post
        Black magic. But yes, if Africa, Mesopotamia, and Palestinia were lost to Britain, the only things the Brits could do to the Germans and Italians in the Med would be to give them some harsh language and ill-will. Such a victory could inspire Turkey to join the Axis, along with Persia which did indeed historically join the axis (only to be promptly invaded by the Soviets from central Asia and the Brits from Mesopotamia; or was it the British Raj?) only this time, Persia would stay long enough to add something meaningful to the conflict, like harassing the British Raj and Russia's southern territories.

        Of course, this would mean another Russo-turkish and Russo-persian war that would in all likelihood end very badly for the muslim nations.
        hm,you are going to fast:if Africa was lost,that will not mean that Palestina and Mesopotamia would be lost:these are two distinctive 'Ifs'

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Czin View Post
          But yes, if Africa, Mesopotamia, and Palestinia were lost to Britain, the only things the Brits could do to the Germans and Italians in the Med would be to give them some harsh language and ill-will.
          You may want to review the actions and achievements of the RN's submarines. Based from Gibraltar they'd still be a factor. Mesopotania is ridiculous over reach though.

          I'd also expect a counter action from the Allies. What happens if they seize Sardina and Corsica while the Axis are are clearing Palestine? That will give the RN and allied airforces dominance over the Western Med.

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          • #80
            I should think tidying up the Mediterranean into a little Axis Sea would be the largest benefit after forcing Great Britain to send everything around the Horn. Gibraltar could have stayed British and it would not matter so long as Malta, Suez, and the near Middle East lay in German hands.

            A u-boat net would have sufficed at keeping the Brits out of the western Med. In the Red Sea any warships sailing there would have been sitting sucks... how much this helps Germany against Russia I cannot say.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by SteinOfOrange View Post
              I should think tidying up the Mediterranean into a little Axis Sea would be the largest benefit after forcing Great Britain to send everything around the Horn.
              I am too lazy to go look up the exact number, but from the Italian DoW in 1940 to the summer of 1943 roughly 95%+ of all Brit cargo was going around the 'Horn'. The Tiger convoy was one of the rare exceptions.

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