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How would one design the most powerful ground division of WW2?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    This causes me to wonder which would be the more difficult task for a German commander in the autum/winter of 1944. Defend against a US or British corps or against a Soviet equivalent?

    I would think the more difficult task in the autumn/winter of 1944 would be defending against a Soviet equivalent to a US/British Corps. I say this not as any reflection on the men or even the weapons of the various countries, but simply on the basis of the fact that the Soviet commander would know he was expected to attack, and hopefully it would be a successful attack, but he had better attack. There was a much higher tolerance for casualties by the Soviets. Also, of course, the Soviets had a better manpower situation than the Western allies.
    Last edited by lakechampainer; 23 May 10, 19:56.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
      Optimal German Division June 45

      3 Regiments of Tiger 2's
      3 Regiments of SS Panzer grenadiers
      3 Transport Regiments of Moonbase Nazi Flying Saucers
      3 AT/AAA Regiments with Quantum Torpedoes

      [SPOILER]:devious
      That was rich. I wonder how many people caught the refrence to 'Area 51' being in the "Mojave Desert"

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      • #48
        Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
        I would think the more difficult task in the autumn/winter of 1944 would be defending against a Soviet equivalent to a US/British Corps. I say this not as any reflection on the men or even the weapons of the various countries, but simply on the basis of the fact that the Soviet commander would know he was expected to attack, and hopefully it would be a successful attack, but he had better attack. There was a much higher tolerance for casualties by the Soviets. Also, of course, the Soviets had a better manpower situation than the Western allies.
        Years ago I watched an attempt to examine this in terms of German 1944 losses per man in the Allied frontline unit. The discussion fell apart over the definition of 'frontline unit'. There was also a argument, rather silly I thought, that PoW should not count. Later I found another effort made to quantify this over the entire war. Actually two discussions, one on this Forum and another elsewhere, both run by the same person.
        Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 24 May 10, 08:32.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
          That was rich. I wonder how many people caught the refrence to 'Area 51' being in the "Mojave Desert"
          Thats the real Area 51 .
          How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
          Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
            Thats the real Area 51 .
            I have the feeling I missed most of the gags in that video. I also have a feeling somewhere someone is watching it and taking every second of it seriously

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            • #51
              I think a good way to look at this problem is to answer this question in terms of the following tactical situation:

              1. Look at the division as being in a defensive mode - due to an enemy attack.

              2. Assume the division is more or less cut off from heavy, immediate movement of reserves, they are simply not available.

              3. Assume the Division is in Western Europe, in land which if flat but hilly. There are therefore some roads available.

              4. The Division has contact with similiar divisions on its left and right.

              5. Assume the enemy does not have the manpower available for "human wave" attacks like the Chinese in the Korean War (or the Soviets in WW II?)


              In this case the key to the division being successful would be the early recognition of an attack and its axis of attack, and the ability to bring significant power to the battle as soon as possible. Therefore the division should have:

              Its best units and equipment in the Cavalry battalion - there should be skilled military intelligence officers in it.

              Artillery with a strong forward observer component, including organic light planes for spotting the enemy. Centralized command of the artillery, as much as possible.

              A heavy tank battalion to deal with any sort of armored breakthrough.

              The other tank units assigned to the regimental commanders.

              Should be a strong signals detachment - maybe an oversized company - handling communication left and right and up and back, and some sort of unit monitoring the enemy.

              Anti-tank weapons, other than the heavy tank battalion, should be in units within the regiments.

              Should be a combat engineers battalion - focus should be on installing mines, defensive measures, etc. and on clearing roads. Specialized units should for bridging, crossing rivers, etc. should be under Army control.

              The divisions should not be designed to be very self-sustaining, or to have huge supply components, since any sort of an offensive will have to be coordinated at the Corps or Army level.

              The division, given the above assumptions, would probably look somewhat like the 1970s US Army "Active Defense" Divisions.
              Last edited by lakechampainer; 25 Jul 10, 12:27.

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