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What if Pearl Harbor never happened?

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  • What if Pearl Harbor never happened?

    Would america still go to war?


    In my opinion yes. Pearl harbour may have been a turning point but still, retaliation isn't the only thing the americans were trying to acomplish. Territorial domination played a role in there. They would go to war BUT a lot later.

    So I wanna hear what you think!

    and happy posting

  • #2
    Originally posted by Snafu112 View Post
    Would america still go to war?


    In my opinion yes. Pearl harbour may have been a turning point but still, retaliation isn't the only thing the americans were trying to acomplish. Territorial domination played a role in there. They would go to war BUT a lot later.

    So I wanna hear what you think!

    and happy posting
    This is a topic that has been debated a number of times on this very site. You might want to go back a few years in time and experience all of them first hand.
    "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Snafu112 View Post
      Would america still go to war?


      In my opinion yes. Pearl harbour may have been a turning point but still, retaliation isn't the only thing the americans were trying to acomplish. Territorial domination played a role in there. They would go to war BUT a lot later.

      So I wanna hear what you think!

      and happy posting
      I doubt it . If the Republicans won the 1940 election the isolationists would probably be part of the government and thus keep the USA out of the war .Maybe even revoke the Lend Lease act. That would jeprodize Britians survival.
      Now what would happen if the Japanese attack ? Maybe total Japanese victory.

      "To all who serve , have or will serve , Thank You"

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      • #4
        What platform was the Republicans running on?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by strathnaver View Post
          I doubt it . If the Republicans won the 1940 election the isolationists would probably be part of the government and thus keep the USA out of the war .Maybe even revoke the Lend Lease act. That would jeprodize Britians survival.
          Now what would happen if the Japanese attack ? Maybe total Japanese victory.
          Wendell Wilkie was an isolationist in name only. He was in favor of the same, strong re-armament program that Roosevelt espoused. In fact, after Roosevelt won the election, he used Wilkie as a good will ambassador around the world to further his aims and programs.
          "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
            Wendell Wilkie was an isolationist in name only. He was in favor of the same, strong re-armament program that Roosevelt espoused. In fact, after Roosevelt won the election, he used Wilkie as a good will ambassador around the world to further his aims and programs.
            These days folks confuse or mix 'Isolationists' with 'America Firsters'. Two seperate groups of a complex mix. In that era Isolationists were the folks who wanted nothing to do with a European war. Those included pacifist groups like the Amish, Quakers, Mennonites, pro Axis groups, and until 22 June 1941 the various Socialist and Communist parties, amoung others. America first groups were not necessarily against US involvement in the war, tho some were. Their agenda was rearming the US first, and looking after US economic interests first vs sending arms & other aid to the USSR, Britian, and others. Wilkie was of the later party, tho for votes he catered to the isolationists as well, as did Roosevelt.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by strathnaver View Post
              I doubt it . If the Republicans won the 1940 election the isolationists would probably be part of the government and thus keep the USA out of the war .Maybe even revoke the Lend Lease act. That would jeprodize Britians survival.
              Now what would happen if the Japanese attack ? Maybe total Japanese victory.

              Japanese total victory could never have happend against America. America is just too big and too powerful. I can see nothing short of Nukes on missles from Germany that could have threatened the USA. Russia was too much for Germany, and the USA was WAY too much for Japan.

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              • #8
                If Japan had still attacked the British in Malaysia and invaded the DEI the US would have declared war in any case. Pearl Harbor was a late comer to the Japanese plan for war.
                Both sides knew that if the above were attacked the US would get involved. That is why Japan decided on the Pearl Harbor raid and had planned all along to invade the Philippines.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  If Japan had still attacked the British in Malaysia and invaded the DEI the US would have declared war in any case. Pearl Harbor was a late comer to the Japanese plan for war.
                  Both sides knew that if the above were attacked the US would get involved. That is why Japan decided on the Pearl Harbor raid and had planned all along to invade the Philippines.
                  Exactly. That was where Admiral Kimmel was expecting the war to begin, not at Pearl Harbor. In the days immediately preceding the Japanese attack, British Admiral Tom Phillips flew to Manila to meet with US Asiatic Fleet Commander Thomas Hart, along with some Dutch Naval Officers to discuss possible joint operations as soon as war broke out with the Japanese in the Pacific.

                  Immediately following the meeting, Phillips asked Hart if if was ok for him to stay in Manila overnight for some shore leave. Hart replied that if you want to be aboard your ship and with your men when the war starts, you'd better leave now. Admiral Phillips returned to Singapore that evening.
                  "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                    Exactly. That was where Admiral Kimmel was expecting the war to begin, not at Pearl Harbor. In the days immediately preceding the Japanese attack, British Admiral Tom Phillips flew to Manila to meet with US Asiatic Fleet Commander Thomas Hart, along with some Dutch Naval Officers to discuss possible joint operations as soon as war broke out with the Japanese in the Pacific.

                    Immediately following the meeting, Phillips asked Hart if if was ok for him to stay in Manila overnight for some shore leave. Hart replied that if you want to be aboard your ship and with your men when the war starts, you'd better leave now. Admiral Phillips returned to Singapore that evening.
                    Theres a WI. The confrence is scheduled later, & Phillips is in Manila the morning of 8 Dec. Does that change much with the sortie of the Brit battleships from Singapore?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                      Theres a WI. The confrence is scheduled later, & Phillips is in Manila the morning of 8 Dec. Does that change much with the sortie of the Brit battleships from Singapore?
                      Phillips is the British task force commanding officer. I don't see the POW and Repulse sailing from Singapore until Tom "thumb" Phillips is back on the bridge of the Prince of Wales.
                      "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                      • #12
                        I supose Phillps would be able to find air transport back to Singapore in a day or maybe two. But, given the situation I wonder if would or would not forward orders to his second to take the battle group out without him?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                          I supose Phillps would be able to find air transport back to Singapore in a day or maybe two. But, given the situation I wonder if would or would not forward orders to his second to take the battle group out without him?
                          Phillips was an Admiral from a different age, where Flag Officers fought their fleets against enemy warships while standing on his flagship's bridge. He was an old time "Battleship Admiral" who as yet, had not been convinced as to the superiority of aircraft over battleships. Sadly, he was all too quickly and all too terminally educated in this new science.
                          "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                          • #14
                            True, but delayed in Manilia he needs to make a decision. Risk delaying the battle fleets sortie for his return, or order it out. I guess part of the answer lies in what he thought of the next man in line for command.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                              Phillips is the British task force commanding officer. I don't see the POW and Repulse sailing from Singapore until Tom "thumb" Phillips is back on the bridge of the Prince of Wales.
                              HMS Prince of Wales & HMS Repulse were sailed to be off Malaya coast by 10 Dec 41 . Phillips was in manila when they were sailed .

                              "To all who serve , have or will serve , Thank You"

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