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What if "Stalingrad" had been named "Detroit"?

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  • What if "Stalingrad" had been named "Detroit"?

    Two questions:

    1) How much of what transpired in late '42/early '43 had to do with the fact that there was a city named "Stalingrad" in the area?

    2) What might have happened had that city been named "Detroit" instead?

    Not to pick on Detroit or anything, by the way.

  • #2
    Rotfl! Anyways, Hitler himself noted that Stalingrad could've been named anything else and he'd still ordered a major attack against it.
    "To be defeated and not submit, is victory; to be victorious and rest on one's laurels, is defeat."
    --Marshal Józef Piłsudski

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    • #3
      Was Stalingrad that important. Why not after getting bogged down just surrond it and let the Russians starve or at least attrit them faster through lack of supplies.

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      • #4
        Stalingrad was a rail depot, and that's what the Germans obstisibly wanted. They could have just flanked around the city and starved it out, or just cut the rail ties to keep the Soviets from continueing to use it. There were important factories, but they were bombed to crap by the Luftwaffe, and not worth the lives of the men trying to take the city BEFORE the encirclement.
        How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
        275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

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        • #5
          So let's say the Germans envelope the city rather than try to take it.

          1. How long does it take to starve the defenders and subdue the city? In other words, how much of 6 army is tied down and for how long?

          2. After the city is subdued, what next? Army Group A is still heading for the Caucasus. What's Army Group B up to?

          3. What do the soviets do?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DingBat View Post
            So let's say the Germans envelope the city rather than try to take it.

            1. How long does it take to starve the defenders and subdue the city? In other words, how much of 6 army is tied down and for how long?

            2. After the city is subdued, what next? Army Group A is still heading for the Caucasus. What's Army Group B up to?

            3. What do the soviets do?
            These are good questions. Stalingrad streched along the Volga like a tube. What I do know is that urban warfare and attrition were not the wehrmact's forte or what they won with. They needed manuver so anything is better than what they did. I would imagine a few divisions of foot infantry could watch the city while the sixth could focus on securing the flank. I also remember Ospery and Alexander both mentioning the relative ease of bypassing the city, had the Germans been smart about of it. The sucess of Case Blue is another matter though.
            How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
            275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wolery View Post
              These are good questions. Stalingrad streched along the Volga like a tube. What I do know is that urban warfare and attrition were not the wehrmact's forte or what they won with. They needed manuver so anything is better than what they did. I would imagine a few divisions of foot infantry could watch the city while the sixth could focus on securing the flank. I also remember Ospery and Alexander both mentioning the relative ease of bypassing the city, had the Germans been smart about of it. The sucess of Case Blue is another matter though.
              Even if they tried to take the city. A lower scale of effort while surronding the city saves them a lot senseless casualties. Which allows them to mount a better defense when the Russian counter attack comes.

              In reality you do not need to starve them out but more or less force them to burn what supplies they have. I do not remeber the exact date but there was one point where the Germans were close to winning but the Russian kept getting just enough stuff into the city to hold out.
              Last edited by craven; 31 Mar 10, 00:02.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wolery View Post
                Stalingrad was a rail depot, and that's what the Germans obstisibly wanted. They could have just flanked around the city and starved it out, or just cut the rail ties to keep the Soviets from continueing to use it. There were important factories, but they were bombed to crap by the Luftwaffe, and not worth the lives of the men trying to take the city BEFORE the encirclement.
                The main point was the Volga taking supplies north. They didnt need to take the city to cut that off nor the railways. It was a stupid strategy that negated the Wehrmachts superiority in manuver warfare and gave the advantage to the defender. I think the name Stalin grad had a lot to do with it when it came to attrition. Anyone sensible would have said this is chewing up my men lets try something else.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by craven View Post
                  Even if they tried to take the city. A lower scale of effort while surronding the city saves them a lot senseless casualties. Which allows them to mount a better defense when the Russian counter attack comes.

                  In reality you do not need to starve them out but more or less force them to burn what supplies they have. I do not remeber the exact date but there was one point where the Germans were close to winning but the Russian kept getting just enough stuff into the city to hold out.
                  It was literally a 100 yards of Russian beachhead on the rivers west bank. It was that close.

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