Plausible late war AH based on early war changes

[Wolery]

Because I want him too. More than that, in this timeline the USSR has bled more, for less and Stalin is of the mind that making a peace will make him look weak, and in his paranoia someone might look to overthrow him. He wants eastern Europe but thinks crushing the fascists totaly will make him unassailable. He will destroy the USSR to make he and he alone rules it.

[craven]

Ok i missed it but is Hitler still alive or was he ever in charge.

[Wolery]

Ok i missed it but is Hitler still alive or was he ever in charge.

Hitler is dead at this point. The military overthrew him in Feb. 1945. They act brave but they acted only when it became apparent Hitler made any prospect of peace with the Allies impossible. Now in our world, this is FAR FAR too late. Here, there is enough wiggle room, if I set it up properly. I put myself into the mind of the officers and concluded they will fight a primarily defensive war in the east, and try to drive the Allies back in France as the Russians have ample room for retreat and maneuver, but the Western Allies have much less so. The lead officer wants to kill Stalin, believing the Western Allies cannot make a peace that appears to sell out the Russians, and Stalin will not make that peace when he's been offered eastern Europe in a victory. Therefore the USSR must withdraw FIRST and then the Allies can make peace, and accuse the Soviets of backstabbing them if need be. At least that's how I'd think they'd do it.

[craven]

Hitler is dead at this point. The military overthrew him in Feb. 1945. They act brave but they acted only when it became apparent Hitler made any prospect of peace with the Allies impossible. Now in our world, this is FAR FAR too late. Here, there is enough wiggle room, if I set it up properly. I put myself into the mind of the officers and concluded they will fight a primarily defensive war in the east, and try to drive the Allies back in France as the Russians have ample room for retreat and maneuver, but the Western Allies have much less so. The lead officer wants to kill Stalin, believing the Western Allies cannot make a peace that appears to sell out the Russians, and Stalin will not make that peace when he's been offered eastern Europe in a victory. Therefore the USSR must withdraw FIRST and then the Allies can make peace, and accuse the Soviets of backstabbing them if need be. At least that's how I'd think they'd do it.

I am guessing your stopping short of limited nuclear war. Otherwise Germany having nukes about a month or two weeks before the use by US. Considering Russia does not have any using them against them may force them to fall back and sue for peace while the US and UK knowing they have some in the pipe may be able to hold out or negotiate from a stronger position.

[Wolery]

I am guessing your stopping short of limited nuclear war. Otherwise Germany having nukes about a month or two weeks before the use by US. Considering Russia does not have any using them against them may force them to fall back and sue for peace while the US and UK knowing they have some in the pipe may be able to hold out or negotiate from a stronger position.

Yes, that is something of the idea. The nukes scare the crap out of everyone, even the US as the Germans have a small set of bombers capable of reaching the US mainland. If it makes any sense, the reason they are not destined to go into nuclear war as they would have with Hitler at the helm, is because the Germans, if not always guilt tripped about Nazism's misdeeds (and this varies person to person), they are pulling themselves out of the moral abyss Hitler was dragging them into. The focus of the story is not about the tactics, or even the politics, but about personal and national redemption. That's why I'm making this a VERY late WWII story instead of saying the Krauts win decisively at Kursk and Stalin appeals for a ceasefire and Europe remains under German boot and Nazi madness. A story like that is a lot more plausible with fewer changes, but doesn't do what I want to do.

[Destroyer25]

Did you say that the Netherlands are neutral and Germany took Antwerp? If so then the Allies would be in a very bad strategic situation. No forward supply base. And I also believe you said that the 3rd army got destroyed. So the Allies are in France and Belgium, they have no fuel, running out of other supplies, they have a gap in their line because of the 3rd armies destruction. So now they are spread thin. They are in a more or less static position do to the lack of fuel.

All Germany needs to do is break through in several points on the allied line. Forcing them to retreat on foot. Chase them down, take prisoners, etc. From there you can get them to sue for peace. Do a prisoner exchange, all the prisoners in Germany for large amounts of supplies.

Germany can then shift its full strength against Russia.


(Just putting this out there, you said Rommel is holding the Suez Canal, which means Britain would have its entire army defending Palestine, there would have been no Invasion of Italy, no experience in naval landings, no D-Day. The situation you have fabricated could have never happened. Its just totally insane.)

[Wolery]

(Just putting this out there, you said Rommel is holding the Suez Canal, which means Britain would have its entire army defending Palestine, there would have been no Invasion of Italy, no experience in naval landings, no D-Day. The situation you have fabricated could have never happened. Its just totally insane.)

Actually, Britain and the US are not trying to defend the Middle East;, they are trying to take it back from the Germans. By the by of Torch, the entire British Middle East was overrun, and the Allies came in from Morocco and have pushed the Germans completely out of Africa (while taking time to invade Italy, an attempt CRUSHED by the Axis), and so it's the Allies advancing out of Cairo and Rommel using the Suez Canal as a choke point to keep them out of Palestine and going onto Iraq. Here's the map:



Yes, Italy is much bigger. The brown area is Italy BEFORE World War II began. The Libya area is occupied by the US, and is part of Italy. The Italian military pioneered modern amphibious assault and the military was one of the best in WWI, but Mussolini left it the military to rot as it turned into a giant occupation force. The dark blue is Sweden, in union with a Norway that was not stripped of Greenland and Iceland after the Napoleonic Wars.

[Destroyer25]

Jesus Christ, you have seriously fcked up history.

[Wolery]

Jesus Christ, you have seriously fcked up history.

It wasn't my intent, but I have like six or seven timelines going on at once, wrapping them up in one nice package took some work, but I like what I've done. Plus I figure if I want to write a story, I've got to make it MY OWN. And that's what I have done.

[Karri]

Because I want him too. More than that, in this timeline the USSR has bled more, for less and Stalin is of the mind that making a peace will make him look weak, and in his paranoia someone might look to overthrow him. He wants eastern Europe but thinks crushing the fascists totaly will make him unassailable. He will destroy the USSR to make he and he alone rules it.

Sorry, wrong question. I ment how does Stalin die?

[Wolery]

The Germans let it leak through Red Orchastra they are going nuke Moscow to eliminate the Politburo so someone sensible will make peace. In practice, Stalin and co retreat to his dacha, the German planes fly over Moscow and nuke the dacha. With Stalin dead and the USSR in chaos, the Red Army makes peace to fight the NKVD for control. The Germans overplay theiir hand, and help the RA win in only a few weeks, and they threaten to rejoin the war just as the Axis deploy their units westward