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  • USA sides with Germany, WW1

    This comes from the WW1 boards, on what would have happened if the US had taken the Central powers side at the outset.
    Never mind how, lets just go tactical here.

    Von Spee's squadron has a safe harbor now, as do other raiders and Uboats, but what else?

    I see the primary battleground being the Caribbean. and not just because of the Panama Canal. With a combined British/French fleet to face on one side and the Japanese on the other, how do you think we would do?
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

  • #2
    how do you think we would do?
    cool thread!
    when the US came in late...germany allready lost the war,also,US forces were not as strong in WWI ,would not make any difference att all.

    if you meant the US entered WWI in 1914 with germany,all off germanys forces would have extra advantage on all grounds,germany was winning the war early on with the US,so with US,germany and US victory!
    I also believe inn the furture this would cause a war bewteen US and germany,who should be the dominate one for winning WWI.

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    • #3
      Think it would depend on the outcome of whatever Naval battle occurrs. Germany could of used supplies that the US shipped to England. ie food and steel and such. Not including whatever troops the US sends over.

      Also there is the Pacific to be considered as the US would have to keep an ie on the Japanese.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ELLE View Post
        cool thread!
        when the US came in late...germany allready lost the war,also,US forces were not as strong in WWI ,would not make any difference att all.
        Actualy, the case can be made that in 1917, the Central powers were winning the war. Serbia and Romania had been knocked out of the war, and Russia was collapsing. Only Turkey was loosing ground, and Italy was horribly mauled at Capporetto.

        And to clarify, this is right at the start, the only time it would have been even remotely feasible.

        Japan might seem like a threat, but without coaling stations they can't reach anything but the Phillipeans, and until November they have Tsingtao to keep them busy.

        The RN can threaten the US, but they have to keep the Home fleet very strong, since the Kaiser's fleet is ready to pounce on any weakness.

        The French fleet is under-employed but is not all that powerful- they need to keep an eye on the Austrian fleet until Italy joins the war in 1915.
        "Why is the Rum gone?"

        -Captain Jack

        Comment


        • #5
          One thing to consider, the 1914 U. S. Navy was not inconsequential.
          Type August 1914 Strength
          Dreadnoughts 10
          Battlecruisers -
          Pre-dreadnought battleships 23
          Coast defence ships -
          Armoured cruisers 12
          Protected cruisers 24
          Light/scout cruisers 3
          Aircraft and seaplane carriers -
          Destroyers 50
          Submarines 27
          Some British forces would have been tied down in the Caribbean, and since this is obviously not the late 18th or early 19th Century British/American force structure or capabilities would be a major diversion of British and/or French naval forces. Would it be enough to tip a Jutland like battle? Might there be major disruptions to the already precarious British importation of food/supplies enough to force Britain out of the war?
          Last edited by Tuor; 24 Jan 10, 14:14.

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          • #6
            Might there be major disruptions to the already precarious British importation of food/supplies enough to force Britain out of the war?

            Absolutely, but a glance at the above table shows a crucial void in the US fleet- few cruisers and no Battle-cruises at all. This means that the US would not be able to cut British shipping lanes outside the Western Atlantic. The safe arrival of Von Spee's Asiatic squadron in a friendly US port would have been an important event, since we would have had little else to raid in the Pacific with.

            The US BBs are seroius contenders, too, even on an individual basis. And besides Japan and Russia, the officers have the most recent experience in large-scale combat in all the belligerent nations.
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Exactly Germany was one serius ally short from victory; While Italy alone woud not tip the balance Japan or USA with good fleets coud. With enough large part of Mainfleet directed to other theatres HSF coud fare better in Jutland battle. I doubt they woud detroy completly the oponent but to brake blockade you had to "only" force British into their bases for a few months. USA didn't posses BC fleet becouse they were not planing the war against British Empire but they coud use submarines just like they did in WWII against Japan in the same role to isolate and starve islands based Empire.
              Kosovo is Serbian.
              I support United Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
              Behead those who say Islam is violent!

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              • #8
                I supose German would still be spoken as commonly as it was here a century ago. Like Spanish now there were many pockets of the German language across the US. Astute politicians knew when to salt their speeches with German phrases when hustling votes. That declined rapidly after 1914. By the time I was a child in the 1950s only the old men regularly threw a few bits of German in the conversation and it was no longer commonly offered in the schools.

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                • #9
                  The most interesting question to me is what would happen with Canada. In 1914, I don't think the US was capable of advancing on Toronto or Montreal (note the difficulties of going after Pancho Villa in 1916 in the OTL: it severely taxed the existing US military). By 1915, however, the US would have been strong enough to seize much of lower Canada. Would Britain send troops to help ward off an invasion? If so, what would be the impact on the Western Front?

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                  • #10
                    I would think that by 1915 the Canadians would have annexed New England, occupied the mid-west as far south as the Kentucky state line, the Great Plains down to Oklahoma would be patrolled by Lord Srathcona's Horse, The Royal Canadian Droogons and the 8th Hussars, regiments from BC and the PPCLI would have occupied Washington Idaho and Oregon. The whole thing could have been managed by two or three divsisions and a couple of cavalry brigades.

                    Of course, New York would have been returned to the Dutch as a protectorate for humanitarian purposes.. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California would have been returned to Mexico (a plumb offered by King George for their assistance). The southeast would have been left to the Americans,... to give them a place to,... ohhh, I don't know,.... perhaps, contemplate a completely idiotic move.
                    .
                    .

                    :

                    Honestly,... does anyone even look at such things as political reality or *national interests* when dreaming these things up.

                    Oi!
                    .
                    The Purist

                    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                      I would think that by 1915 the Canadians would have annexed New England, occupied the mid-west as far south as the Kentucky state line, the Great Plains down to Oklahoma would be patrolled by Lord Srathcona's Horse, The Royal Canadian Droogons and the 8th Hussars, regiments from BC and the PPCLI would have occupied Washington Idaho and Oregon. The whole thing could have been managed by two or three divsisions and a couple of cavalry brigades.

                      Of course, New York would have been returned to the Dutch as a protectorate for humanitarian purposes.. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California would have been returned to Mexico (a plumb offered by King George for their assistance). The southeast would have been left to the Americans,... to give them a place to,... ohhh, I don't know,.... perhaps, contemplate a completely idiotic move.


                      Honestly,... does anyone even look at such things as political reality or *national interests* when dreaming these things up.
                      Arthur Currie would have a rolling barrage starting from the 49th parallel and continuing all the way to Albuquerque.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skoblin View Post
                        Arthur Currie would have a rolling barrage starting from the 49th parallel and continuing all the way to Albuquerque.
                        I think he's supposed to make a left turn at Albuquerque.

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                        • #13
                          Let me quote myself here-

                          [B]Never mind how, lets just go tactical here.[/B]

                          Or would you like me to come up with a series of unfortunate events that makes it happen? Nobody likes that either, but here we all are again.
                          "Why is the Rum gone?"

                          -Captain Jack

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                            I would think that by 1915 the Canadians would have annexed New England, occupied the mid-west as far south as the Kentucky state line, the Great Plains down to Oklahoma would be patrolled by Lord Srathcona's Horse, The Royal Canadian Droogons and the 8th Hussars, regiments from BC and the PPCLI would have occupied Washington Idaho and Oregon. The whole thing could have been managed by two or three divsisions and a couple of cavalry brigades.

                            Of course, New York would have been returned to the Dutch as a protectorate for humanitarian purposes.. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California would have been returned to Mexico (a plumb offered by King George for their assistance). The southeast would have been left to the Americans,... to give them a place to,... ohhh, I don't know,.... perhaps, contemplate a completely idiotic move.
                            .
                            .

                            :

                            Honestly,... does anyone even look at such things as political reality or *national interests* when dreaming these things up.

                            Oi!
                            .
                            ACtually there was a some support for Germany prior to the US joining on the allies side.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Actually, German started losing American support (amongst the power brokers that is, and they are ones who count) as soon as they crossed over the Belgian border and began burning villages and shooting civilians. From there it was step by step into the political doghouse for Germany as it made one gross political error after another. Diplomatically imperial Germany was a basket case and while some Pennsylvannia farmers and lawyers may have an emotional tie to the Fatherland, the people who make the decisions and who influence those who make the decisions knew from day one where America's *national interests* lay.

                              And they were not with Germany.
                              The Purist

                              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                              Comment

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