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  • Hitler the Great?

    Hi everyone,

    I'm new to this part of the forum so I hope this 'What If' has yet to be discussed, dissected and digested. If it has been already discussed then my apologies for wasting your time.

    Now, to the 'What If'.

    What if Hitler had stopped being such a Wiesel and had behaved himself after the Munich agreement? Would he be considered one of the great Germans of all time? A Bismark, maybe?
    "Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." Buckminster Fuller

    http://harveylevy.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    He would have been over thrown by his fellow Nazis probably. GERMANY SHALL RULE THE WORLD! We'll I think we'll just stop our expansion here. This piece of paper says if we continue bad things will happen to us.
    A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

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    • #3
      The shaky economic policies of the nazis would have come to a head circa 1940. Keeping the Reich solvent and the banks functional would have required massive military cutbacks. Economy measures in the social programs woudl be necessary as well, and the tax policy towards the businessmen who supported the nazi party would need to be rethought.

      Annexing the remainder of Cezchoslovakia gave Germany the Cezch treasury and banks. Enough to fund the nazi 'economic miracle' another year or two.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
        The shaky economic policies of the nazis would have come to a head circa 1940. Keeping the Reich solvent and the banks functional would have required massive military cutbacks. Economy measures in the social programs woudl be necessary as well, and the tax policy towards the businessmen who supported the nazi party would need to be rethought.

        Annexing the remainder of Cezchoslovakia gave Germany the Cezch treasury and banks. Enough to fund the nazi 'economic miracle' another year or two.
        Agreed and taking over the gold reserves of France, Belgium, Norway, Luxumbourg and Holland, kept Germany's hopeless economic pipe dreams alight for a few more years.
        "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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        • #5
          Indeed. The land of the conquered nations was worth nothing compared to their riches in gold and $$$.
          A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
            Indeed. The land of the conquered nations was worth nothing compared to their riches in gold and $$$.
            It was the only thing that kept Germany's war machine running. It's entire economy would have collapsed without the gold reserves from conquered countries..
            "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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            • #7
              Indeed, also all the nations the conquered provided a lot of wheat. Poland, France, Ukraine, Belorus, and Hungary too once they joined.
              A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

              Comment


              • #8
                If I understand Flannigan, Tooze and the other historians investigating Europes and Germanies economies of the nazi era the actual gold bullion captured by Germany was not suffcient, rather the nazi bankers used what they had to play a sort of shell game with trick bookeeping to make their creditors (which included German industry) think the Reichs bank accounts were fat.

                That is when Germany took over a nation with X ammount of gold reserves, cash, and credit or other fiscal assets the nazi government claimed a much larger ammount so as to calm the nerves of German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Rumanian, and US businessmen and bankers or Soviet financial managers.

                If Germany does not secure Cezchoslovakias financial assets in March of 1939 the nazis party is over unless they cut back considerablly on their social programs and military expendetures. Even then a major finacial overhaul will be necesary to stabilize the complex and questionable arrigments that 'paid' for the previous five years. Perhaps they would have to consolidate the survivng 'Jewish Bankers' in a special work camp to run Germanys finances
                Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 05 Sep 09, 20:52.

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                • #9
                  Above comments seem to say that if Hitler had stopped not after the Sudenteland but rather after incorporating rump Czechoslavakia he would have had a (perhaps brief) breathing spell, and, of course, no war yet with Britain/France. Does it then become a game of chicken between Hitler and Stalin as to who seeks to gain advantage in eastern Europe, particularly Poland and Rumania?

                  If Stalin sought a pretext to attack Poland might that have led to a nazi attack on him, at least tacitly backed by England and France?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FM Harvey View Post
                    Hi everyone,

                    I'm new to this part of the forum so I hope this 'What If' has yet to be discussed, dissected and digested. If it has been already discussed then my apologies for wasting your time.

                    Now, to the 'What If'.

                    What if Hitler had stopped being such a Wiesel and had behaved himself after the Munich agreement? Would he be considered one of the great Germans of all time? A Bismark, maybe?
                    Hitler would have been more of a hero in the furture for the german people,not so sure in being the greatest german ever lived,can't ever see Hitler being a Winton Churchill.
                    Even if Hitler behave himself with the Munich agreement & never invadied any other countries,Hitler would have still destroyed the jewish race.

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Elle
                      Even if Hitler behave himself with the Munich agreement & never invadied any other countries,Hitler would have still destroyed the jewish race.[/QUOTE

                      Possibly German jews, although if he needed some sort of western support in opposing Stalin Hitler might have opted more for expulsion, but without occuping Poland and large sections of the U.S.S.R. the chance of carrying out a holocaust would not have arisen.

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                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=Tuor;1302166]
                        Originally posted by Elle
                        Even if Hitler behave himself with the Munich agreement & never invadied any other countries,Hitler would have still destroyed the jewish race.[/QUOTE

                        Possibly German jews, although if he needed some sort of western support in opposing Stalin Hitler might have opted more for expulsion, but without occuping Poland and large sections of the U.S.S.R. the chance of carrying out a holocaust would not have arisen.
                        This might have been the reason why Hitler turn his back on the Munich argreement?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                          The shaky economic policies of the nazis would have come to a head circa 1940. Keeping the Reich solvent and the banks functional would have required massive military cutbacks. Economy measures in the social programs woudl be necessary as well, and the tax policy towards the businessmen who supported the nazi party would need to be rethought.

                          Annexing the remainder of Cezchoslovakia gave Germany the Cezch treasury and banks. Enough to fund the nazi 'economic miracle' another year or two.
                          I see. So you think that financial instability would have forced Hitler to cut back in public expenditures. Well, what effect would this have had in the political sphere? I mean, Hitler would have regained most of the lost territories and have added Austria to the Reich without firing a shot. So the Germans would have had to tighten their belts. Is not as if they were on the Gold standard so other economic measures could have been employed to bolster a sagging economy. And it's not as if Germany had nothing to offer to trade. Germany was one of the leading industrial countries -pharmaceuticals and heavy industry come to mind - and with political stability, and let's face it political stability is gold to investors, the country would have attracted foreign investment like Ford, IBM, and other industrial giants had already done. Although you raise a good and reasonable issue I am not convinced it would have detracted from the political accomplishments.
                          "Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." Buckminster Fuller

                          http://harveylevy.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tuor View Post
                            Above comments seem to say that if Hitler had stopped not after the Sudenteland but rather after incorporating rump Czechoslavakia he would have had a (perhaps brief) breathing spell, and, of course, no war yet with Britain/France. Does it then become a game of chicken between Hitler and Stalin as to who seeks to gain advantage in eastern Europe, particularly Poland and Rumania?

                            If Stalin sought a pretext to attack Poland might that have led to a nazi attack on him, at least tacitly backed by England and France?
                            There was no common border between Germany and the USSR until after Poland was partitioned so I don't see the possibility of a German attack upon the USSR. Now, if Stalin had decided to invade Poland before Hitler (let's say no Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) then that's fodder for another what if.
                            "Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." Buckminster Fuller

                            http://harveylevy.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                              If I understand Flannigan, Tooze and the other historians investigating Europes and Germanies economies of the nazi era the actual gold bullion captured by Germany was not suffcient, rather the nazi bankers used what they had to play a sort of shell game with trick bookeeping to make their creditors (which included German industry) think the Reichs bank accounts were fat.

                              That is when Germany took over a nation with X ammount of gold reserves, cash, and credit or other fiscal assets the nazi government claimed a much larger ammount so as to calm the nerves of German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Rumanian, and US businessmen and bankers or Soviet financial managers.

                              If Germany does not secure Cezchoslovakias financial assets in March of 1939 the nazis party is over unless they cut back considerablly on their social programs and military expendetures. Even then a major finacial overhaul will be necesary to stabilize the complex and questionable arrigments that 'paid' for the previous five years. Perhaps they would have to consolidate the survivng 'Jewish Bankers' in a special work camp to run Germanys finances:cheeky:
                              Carl, your humor is not offensive but is not that funny.
                              "Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." Buckminster Fuller

                              http://harveylevy.blogspot.com/

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