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Hitler successfully assassinates Stalin, Roosavelt and Churchill

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  • #16
    Originally posted by redcoat View Post
    The passenger plane he was referring too was the one carrying the movie star Leslie Howard from Portugal to England. The DC-3 passenger plane was intercepted by eight Ju 88 long range fighters and shot down into the sea over the Bay of Biscay on the 1st June 1943.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Howard_(actor)
    Did the programme on 'Churchill's Bodyguard' mention that Leslie Howard bore a resemblance to the guard Walter Thompson, i am sure i saw that mentioned somewhere.

    Last edited by Post Captain; 19 Jul 09, 13:20.
    Never Fear the Event

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    • #17
      I believe it is covered in this episode

      Programme 9

      WINSTON'S DOUBLE

      A precarious trip to Moscow to visit Stalin is followed by victory for the 8th Army in North Africa. However, the Germans know that Churchill is travelling and try at least twice to shoot down his plane. His double is not so lucky…http://www.nugusmartin.com/CHURBodGu...nders1.9anchor
      "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
      "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

      "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
      — Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

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      • #18
        Its a bit 'the eagle has landed' isn't it?

        Realistically you're not getting all three individually so its probably going to be the Tehran or Yalta conference. Hypothetically fallschrimjagers fall from the sky and machine gun the big three.

        For Britain and the US it makes no difference. Atlee and Truman step forward and possibly even nuke Berlin. The Russian advance may slow a little but wouldn't stop because comms in russia were so bad that guys like Zhukov had immense autonomy.

        From what I can see the world would maybe be a better place- eastern europe wouldn't be as soviet dominated, the nazis still take a beating and we don't get Churchills awful return as PM in the early 50's.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by peter_sym View Post
          For Britain and the US it makes no difference. Atlee and Truman step forward and possibly even nuke Berlin.
          I could see Truman doing that, but Atlee? I thought Atlee was suspicious of the military. But you, as Brit, can correct me on that one.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Consul View Post
            I thought Atlee was suspicious of the military.
            He wasn't a "dove". He ensured that Britain's A bomb project would go ahead.
            "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
            "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

            "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
            — Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Consul View Post
              I could see Truman doing that, but Atlee? I thought Atlee was suspicious of the military. But you, as Brit, can correct me on that one.
              I think he was more suspicious of the upper class who tend to fill most of the upper ranks in the army. This is an exert from the Wiki page on him:

              "During World War I, Attlee was given the rank of captain and served with the South Lancashire Regiment in the Gallipoli Campaign in Turkey. After a period of fighting in the heat, sand, and flies he became ill with dysentery and was sent to hospital in Malta to recover. This may have saved his life, as while he was in hospital he missed the Battle of Sari Bair in which many of his comrades were killed.

              Attlee had gained a reputation among his superiors as a competent leader. When he returned to the front, he was informed that his company had been chosen to hold the final lines when Gallipoli was evacuated. He was the last-but-one man to be evacuated from Suvla Bay (the last being General F.S. Maude).[3]

              The Gallipoli campaign had been masterminded by Winston Churchill. Attlee believed that it was a bold strategy, which could have been successful if it had been better implemented. This gave him an admiration for Churchill as a military strategist, which improved their working relationship in later years.[3]

              He later served in the Mesopotamian Campaign in Iraq, where he was badly wounded at El Hannah after being hit in the leg by shrapnel from an exploding shell while taking enemy trenches. He was sent back to England to recover, and spent most of 1917 training soldiers. He was sent to France in June 1918 to serve on the Western Front for the last months of the war.[3]

              In 1917 he had been promoted to the rank of Major, and continued to be known as "Major Attlee" for much of the inter-war period.

              His decision to fight in the war caused a rift between him and his older brother Tom Attlee, who as a pacifist and a conscientious objector spent much of the war in prison.[3] After the war, he returned to teaching at the London School of Economics until 1923."

              Not a bad record for a soldier.


              Incidentally most people don't realise but after the cock-up at Gallipoli to make ammends with his concience Churchill fought as a half colonel with the 6th battalion Royal Scots Fusilleers. Apparently he showed a lot of bravery.

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              • #22
                Loss of Uncle Joe

                Interesting premise...the leadership of the U.S and the British Empire would not have been affected in a negative way by the loss of Churchill or Roosevelt. In fact as in another thread here...it might have actually led to a negotiated peace...rather then the long term damage to the West of the "Unconditional Surrender" policy. Stalin is a different ball game. It is now a historical fact that most of the government was ready to evacuate Moscow as the German Army approched the suburbs of the city. Stalin insisted on a close defense...without Uncle Joe...especially in light of his success in the 1930's in eliminating potential rivals in both military and political circles...there would have been a major power vacumn in the Soviet Union. Yes...the Red Army still had many competant field generals...but due to the above mentioned system...few... if any generals would have taken a political position quickly...especially as this would expose them to possible arrest by the NKVD!!

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                • #23
                  Did Russia during this period really have a way for a quick replacement of there leader. Even in Peace time it seem to be kind of a ruff game even though most of the players are are in line.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by craven View Post
                    Did Russia during this period really have a way for a quick replacement of there leader. Even in Peace time it seem to be kind of a ruff game even though most of the players are are in line.
                    Its a complex question/answer. You should ask the Russians over on the RKKA discussion boards for their view. A look at what happened when Stalin died in the 1950s should provide a few hints as well. My guess is a sort of commitee of the other half dozen most powerfull men would wield the power, which could gradually congeal in the hands of one. Beria might try for all the marbles, but he vanished very quickly after Stalins death.

                    On the legal or technical side of the question Stalin held several positions within the government, aside from Party Secretary. The constitutional procedure for filling those positions when vacant were fairly straight forward. As with any other government it is in the underlying politics where it becomes sticky.

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                    • #25
                      Thats a good point and brings me nicely onto Zhukov's role post war: He was the guy who sent the tanks for Beria and who prevented Khrushchef being overthrown. He doesn't seem to have had major political ambitions himself but he was feared by the Kremlin as a 'king maker'. Basically if Stalin dies during the war whoever takes over will be an ally of Zhukov.

                      The communist system was so structured and such a part of everyones life that I don't think Stalin's death would be a major disaster. When he DID die it was kept quiet for 6 months and the major party apparatus just continued as normal. The advantage of war time Russia is spectacularly limited comms and media. The country only finds out what the party wants it to find out. No TV and very few radios so even if the Germans DID kill Stalin actually telling the Russian people would be very hard to do.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by peter_sym View Post
                        Thats a good point and brings me nicely onto Zhukov's role post war: He was the guy who sent the tanks for Beria and who prevented Khrushchef being overthrown.
                        One version is a squad of "Field Marshalls" performed the arrest. Most storys claim tanks, in varying numbers escorted his limosine off to a military prison. Others say he was arrested by a ordinary squad of military Police supervised by a mere Colonel and taken out by of the apartment building via the back stairs. Another says he got into his car to discover he did not recognize the driver or guards

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                        • #27
                          I love reading about it.... Did beria actually poison him or simply discover he'd had a stroke and left him dying with orders that no-one should disturb 'the boss'? I doubt we'll ever find out for sure.

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