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Hitler successfully assassinates Stalin, Roosavelt and Churchill

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  • Hitler successfully assassinates Stalin, Roosavelt and Churchill

    Hitler had a plan to try to assassinate all these leaders at once. I do not believe the loss of national leadership in the US or England would have significantly changed the war efforts in those countries, but what about the Soviet Union?

    Question: Could the assassination of Stalin have thrown the Soviet leadership into complete chaos? (I think it could have).

    If Stalin is assassinated before Barbarossa, such that the campaign was launched shortly thereafter (let's assume it is still launched in September), does the lack of national leadership and the ensuing chaos give the Germans that little extra edge they needed to reach Moscow before full winter sets in? Does the inevitable purge damage the Russian military to the extent they cannot stop the Germans? Russia already had plans to relocate their capital from Moscow to east of the Ural mountains. Could such a move in conjunction with the need to rebuild the government effectively checkmate Russia out of the war? (I think it's possible, but not a given)

    Without the eastern front to bleed the Germans, is Overlord even possible?
    (I think Overlord succeeded largely due to the damage the eastern meatgrinder did to the German army the two years prior.)

    Who was the most likely person to step into Stalin's shoes? Just how important was Stalin to winning the war,anyway?

    I hope y'all have fun with this one!

  • #2
    I don't see the loss of any of these leaders would have affected
    the outcome of the war . I think that all 3 nations could have survived
    the death of their leaders . Now I think the killing of them would have been highly difficult , they all had protective details , the distances , Roosevelt was only out of the USA to attend conferences all of which
    were in secure areas . And landing a kill detail in the USA would have been hard , look how many spies got caught almost of the Uboat.
    Churchill had more exposure to danger but getting a shooter on him
    would have been IMHO difficult . Stalin well if you are a German with a death wish try it . Ssoviet army + NKVD = protection.

    "To all who serve , have or will serve , Thank You"

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    • #3
      The death of Stalin would have been a catastrophe for Russia. According to his own rules, he himself should have been shot when Hitler invaded, and he was surprised that he was not.
      There simply was nobody to replace him, which was probably one reason for the Purges.


      However, it would have been tough to pull off. And once you let that Genie out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. Hitler suvived over a dozen German attempts to kill him, how long could he have stayed lucky with Allied spies trying to pick him off too?
      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
        The death of Stalin would have been a catastrophe for Russia. According to his own rules, he himself should have been shot when Hitler invaded, and he was surprised that he was not.
        There simply was nobody to replace him, which was probably one reason for the Purges.
        Well, in 1943 someone from the military could have substituted him in fact. Surely it would have been a big loss, but Zhukov star was at its apogee and he could have coped with the task of being a national leader. One of the reasons Stalin did his best to brush him aside after the war.
        www.histours.ru

        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bubblehead;1260994[B
          ]Hitler had a plan to try to assassinate all these leaders at once[/B]. I do not believe the loss of national leadership in the US or England would have significantly changed the war efforts in those countries, but what about the Soviet Union?

          Question: Could the assassination of Stalin have thrown the Soviet leadership into complete chaos? (I think it could have).

          If Stalin is assassinated before Barbarossa, such that the campaign was launched shortly thereafter (let's assume it is still launched in September), does the lack of national leadership and the ensuing chaos give the Germans that little extra edge they needed to reach Moscow before full winter sets in? Does the inevitable purge damage the Russian military to the extent they cannot stop the Germans? Russia already had plans to relocate their capital from Moscow to east of the Ural mountains. Could such a move in conjunction with the need to rebuild the government effectively checkmate Russia out of the war? (I think it's possible, but not a given)

          Without the eastern front to bleed the Germans, is Overlord even possible?
          (I think Overlord succeeded largely due to the damage the eastern meatgrinder did to the German army the two years prior.)

          Who was the most likely person to step into Stalin's shoes? Just how important was Stalin to winning the war,anyway?

          I hope y'all have fun with this one!
          It was called the assination of the "Big THREE"!
          i do belive that if Stalin was assinated that Russia would have been effected badly! I know Starlin was an evil man buit the evilness help get Russia out of trouble.
          A leader with weaker personality could easily secum to hilters barbarick ways.
          Example- Churchill,a leader with guts,Briton survive! Same situation with Russia.

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          • #6
            Stalin would have been difficult to kill, he used doppelgangers to often, as for Russia not being able to survive without him i doubt it. They had many capable Generals who were also popular with the people, Zhukov being one. I don't think that evil brings about a powerful society.
            Last edited by cecilia; 18 Jul 09, 04:41.
            "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised"
            Zap Brannigan. Futurama

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            • #7
              I agree and loosing Stalin may have more positive then negative effects for the USSR. Besides I don´t see what reaching Moscow will do. Is it just going to fall into German hands like that? No, It would be a other Stalingrad, perhaps even a Leningrad but Moscow would not be easily taken.
              “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

              Max Sterner

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              • #8
                Just remember- when you take a shot at a National leader, yours becomes a target too.

                I think that's the reason why neither side made a serious effort to do so.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                  Just remember- when you take a shot at a National leader, yours becomes a target too.

                  I think that's the reason why neither side made a serious effort to do so.
                  Admiral Yamamoto was not quite at the same level as Tojo, but certainly in the upper levels. Were there any other examples of senior leaders being targeted?

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                  • #10
                    It is proabaly just mis-identification + a fair bit of romantic exaggeration, but in his memior 'Panzer Commander' Hans Von Luck had a British outfit in his sights in North Africa when he saw a portly figure in a sun-helmet that could only have been Churchill. He chose not to fire, remembering some positive comments that Rommel had made about the British Leader, mostly to the effect that Churchill would be the only man that could stand up to Russia after it was all over. Von Luck admired Churchill getting out on the front lines, compared to Hitler never making it out of Germany.




                    According to Wiki, the excounter took place some time after the 23rd jan 43.
                    Last edited by Chukka; 19 Jul 09, 00:03.
                    One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions - Admiral Grace Hopper

                    "The eunuch should not take pride in his chastity."
                    Wu Cheng'en Monkey

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                    • #11
                      In Churchill memoirs he refers to a passenger lane lost on the regularly scheduled England to Portugal flight. He claims: 1. It was short down by a German interceptor. 2. A individual that looked like him (Churchill) had boarded.

                      I dont recall any post war confirmation the Germans attacked the passenger plane. However Churchill was prepared to believe they would in a attempt to eliminate him.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                        Just remember- when you take a shot at a National leader, yours becomes a target too.

                        I think that's the reason why neither side made a serious effort to do so.
                        I think the Germans did try pulling it at the Tehran conference.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Long_Jump
                        www.histours.ru

                        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chukka View Post
                          It is proabaly just mis-identification + a fair bit of romantic exaggeration, but in his memior 'Panzer Commander' Hans Von Luck had a British outfit in his sights in North Africa when he saw a portly figure in a sun-helmet that could only have been Churchill. .
                          I'm afraid Hans von Luck has rather a reputation for embellishing his stories.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                            In Churchill memoirs he refers to a passenger lane lost on the regularly scheduled England to Portugal flight. He claims: 1. It was short down by a German interceptor. 2. A individual that looked like him (Churchill) had boarded.

                            I dont recall any post war confirmation the Germans attacked the passenger plane. However Churchill was prepared to believe they would in a attempt to eliminate him.
                            The passenger plane he was referring too was the one carrying the movie star Leslie Howard from Portugal to England. The DC-3 passenger plane was intercepted by eight Ju 88 long range fighters and shot down into the sea over the Bay of Biscay on the 1st June 1943.
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Howard_(actor)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                              I think the Germans did try pulling it at the Tehran conference.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Long_Jump
                              Hence why Otto Skorzeny was dubbed 'The Most Dangerous Man in Europe.'
                              'The Most Dangerous Man in Europe'

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