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  • copenhagen
    replied
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    Heres a question. If the small confederation of former British colonies remain a poor example would the Spainish colonies be inspired to revolt for their independance?

    Jumping ahead to 1914 a much larger British Dominion in North America, and possibly a large French colony suggests a much larger resource base for the early years of WWI. Would that change the balance of the Great War 1915 - 1917?
    Bearing in mind Canada, NZ and Australia etc were in from the gert go I see no reason why American territories still in the family wouldnt get involved to.So I would say yes.

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  • Heidi
    replied
    Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
    Britain would annex the US and rule like 80% of North America. Then Canada would be in ctrl of the US =D
    What's you're qoute referring too? How would briton rule 80% of America?
    I thought the war was forught long time ago and America won her independance?
    What "what if" you are talking about?

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  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    Heres a question. If the small confederation of former British colonies remain a poor example would the Spainish colonies be inspired to revolt for their independance?

    Jumping ahead to 1914 a much larger British Dominion in North America, and possibly a large French colony suggests a much larger resource base for the early years of WWI. Would that change the balance of the Great War 1915 - 1917?

    Leave a comment:


  • copenhagen
    replied
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    Hmmmm....
    No influx of immigrants looking for a place where effort and imagination were rewarded fairly, no free exchange of ideas in a dynamic marketplace.... more bad news.

    A big delay in things like the telegraph, telephones, powered flight, vaccines, light bulbs, the Panama canal, splitting the atom, men on the Moon and the Hubble telescope and an endless list of other things... if they would have happened at all.

    And yes, the computer you are using right now.

    This is a giant can of giant worms.... way to big for me to get into.
    This alternative doesnt fly to be honest as it assumes that these things were not being looked at in Europe which they were witht the Industrial Revolution in Britain in full swing. French were in on powered flight greatly. Alexander Graham Bell who was born in Scotland and the phone. Joseph Swan with the light bulb, and atom splitting reserch was being done in Europe aswell. Certainly the computer as the first electronic programmable one was built in Britain during ww2 at Bletchley to crack the 12 pin Enigma code. The talent and innovation was there.America being a poor backwater wouldnt have change that.
    Last edited by copenhagen; 22 Jul 09, 04:02.

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  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung View Post
    America was underpopulated and had no infrastructure or military might. Europeans (and maybe a few Asians) would be pouring into this land regardless of politics and building it up.
    Quite so. European, and Asian, immigrants went to Latin or South America whenever they could as well as North America.

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  • AThousandYoung
    replied
    America was underpopulated and had no infrastructure or military might. Europeans (and maybe a few Asians) would be pouring into this land regardless of politics and building it up.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Hmmmm....
    No influx of immigrants looking for a place where effort and imagination were rewarded fairly, no free exchange of ideas in a dynamic marketplace.... more bad news.

    A big delay in things like the telegraph, telephones, powered flight, vaccines, light bulbs, the Panama canal, splitting the atom, men on the Moon and the Hubble telescope and an endless list of other things... if they would have happened at all.

    And yes, the computer you are using right now.

    This is a giant can of giant worms.... way to big for me to get into.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyberknight
    replied
    Originally posted by CATO1948 View Post
    What we were however were shameless smugglers and when necessary priates. We consistently refused to accept any restriction on trade regardless of what European powers were at war and to take substantial risk of loss to realize the great profits that could be realized by being free traders in such circumstance.

    Curiously the most immediate effect might have been the destruction of the southern planataion system either through lack of markets or being force into uneconomic relationships with European markets.
    You are aware of course that such language is how belligerants generally refer to neutrals who "have not the moral courage and brilliance to join the side of the angels", right?

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  • Cyberknight
    replied
    Originally posted by Amenta Kaiser View Post
    What if the United States, after the American Revolutionary War, was plauged with weak governments, poor military, and lack of innovation in technology? The Industrial Revolution doesn't hit America as strongly (if at all). By the 20th Century, America never became more than a minor power.

    So how would this affect the world?

    (Also, since the U.S. was weak, they never even attempted to attack other powers like Spain or Mexico. Just wanted to make that clear)
    OK, they stick to the Articles of Confederation as the governing document and quickly divide into five or six confederated interests. The British soon take New England and the central states while Spain take a portion of the South.

    The odd thing is that with less national restraint than existed, I believe that European expansion into the West would be greater albeit with the formation of dozens of European sized nation constantly fighting over resources.

    IOW, as close as early America came to falling as it was, a few fundamental changes would mean no USA at all.

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  • Destroyer25
    replied
    Britain would annex the US and rule like 80% of North America. Then Canada would be in ctrl of the US =D

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    If Gen. "Mad" Anthony Wayne had been defeated in 1794 in the Northwest Indian War (or Little Turtle's War) in Ohio...The USA might just have remained a weak collection of states on the east coast of North America. There's an interesting article about Wayne's campaign in the latest issue of Military History magazine.
    Waynes victory is the best known of the war for the Northwest Territory. Harrisons victory at Tippecanoe was one of the several others. There were defeats aswell. A few kilometers east of Harrisons victory is the site where a miltia raiding party was ambushed and run off with heavy losses by a Miami warband.

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  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    Originally posted by CATO1948 View Post

    Curiously the most immediate effect might have been the destruction of the southern planataion system either through lack of markets or being force into uneconomic relationships with European markets.
    Tobacco had been in decline from the latter half of the 18th Century. That was destroying the plantation or industrial slave operated farms. Had the Cotton Gin not become available & made the cotton industries expansion practical the Plantations farms would have dwindled into a anchronism, run by a few old families longing for their 18th Century glory days. Efforts to turn the plantations to other crops had been sucessfull on a individual scale. ie Washingtons conversion of Mt Vernon into industrial scale food production. But that required a high level of technical knowledge, a willinigness to inovate, sales skills (to sell the products), and a willingness to put in the long hours running a business. Most of the plantation owners were unwilling or unable to make the transition, despite the example of several sucessfull men like Washington.

    William H Harrisons effort to establish a plantation economy in the Indiana territory in the 1820 - 30s failed as the small farmers proved more viable in supplying the grain markets. The failure of Harrison & his associates demonstrated the inability of the average plantation farmer to compete in the food market. It required slavery & monoculture of a high demand crop, like Tobacco or Cotton to make the plantation system sustainable. Without industrial development in the former colonies Cotton would not be viable there & the plantations would atrophy.

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  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    Russia keeps Alaska
    Well, Russia sold it for the reason it was no longer feasible to keep it and that Britain would get it anyway as Russia didn't have any strong navy in the Pacific. So it would've lost it this way or another. Maybe it would've even sold it to Britian, for an even smaller price.

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  • LtCol
    replied
    True, but so what?

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  • CATO1948
    replied
    Originally posted by LtCol View Post
    We were plauged by weak government, rival states issues, no military, no way to collect taxes, no way enforce laws, little respect from foreign powers, no united goals or actions, in the toilet economy, and the list goes on and on. That is why the Articles of Confederation was thrown out and the Constitution established.
    What we were however were shameless smugglers and when necessary priates. We consistently refused to accept any restriction on trade regardless of what European powers were at war and to take substantial risk of loss to realize the great profits that could be realized by being free traders in such circumstance.

    Curiously the most immediate effect might have been the destruction of the southern planataion system either through lack of markets or being force into uneconomic relationships with European markets.

    Leave a comment:

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