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The Shortest Crossing

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  • #46
    Why are you suprised?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
      I find that surprising, the 88 can easily penetrate the armor of a Sherman.
      I have lost the will to post anymore on this subject.

      Paul
      Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 13 Jun 09, 01:21.
      ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
      All human ills he can subdue,
      Or with a bauble or medal
      Can win mans heart for you;
      And many a blessing know to stew
      To make a megloamaniac bright;
      Give honour to the dainty Corse,
      The Pixie is a little shite.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
        I find that surprising, the 88 can easily penetrate the armor of a Sherman.
        Wittmann was caught in the open, by Allied units in cover on both flanks and in front of him.

        It was a suicidal attack on a par with the Charge of the Light Brigade

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        • #49
          Originally posted by redcoat View Post
          Wittmann was caught in the open, by Allied units in cover on both flanks and in front of him.

          It was a suicidal attack on a par with the Charge of the Light Brigade
          Sometimes advancing without regard to your flanks works, sometimes it does not.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
            The Idea of the counterstrike takes so much more fuel then Rommel's plan which is the reason I though it would be better. Peter you can talk about how difficult it was to keep the Tigers running but the Tiger entered service in 1942, so obviously the Germans had a way of dealing with it because they kept it going for 3 years. Obviously it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be cause if it was so difficult then there would be no point in using it. Obviously they felt that it was worth it..
            The issue is not that the Tiger was unusually difficult to support, but these limiting factors apply to ALL armoured forces - it's what stopped Patton at the end of August 1944.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
              Sometimes advancing without regard to your flanks works, sometimes it does not.
              Well it worked well for Germany obviously, until Russia. It worked for a year or so then they learned how to use their tanks properly.
              A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
                The Idea of the counterstrike takes so much more fuel then Rommel's plan which is the reason I though it would be better. Peter you can talk about how difficult it was to keep the Tigers running but the Tiger entered service in 1942, so obviously the Germans had a way of dealing with it because they kept it going for 3 years. Obviously it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be cause if it was so difficult then there would be no point in using it. Obviously they felt that it was worth it. And while the Tiger had its weak points it was still an excellent tank and even its speed was good for a heavy tank. Wittman destroyed 100s of enemy tanks over the course of the war. So its obvious that the Tiger was efficient with a good crew. He met his death because of his overconfidence. I believe he charged 5 Fireflys, killed 1 and the other 4 killed him. I guess he hadn't any experience fighting tanks with 17 Pounders.
                Yes. The Germans DID know how to use Tigers.... you used damn near a division worth of trucks carryying fuel, maintenance and logistics to keep a company of tanks in the field. Neither is this unique to Tigers. ALL tanks need huge logistics associated with them. The M1's that invaded Iraq had 10 mile convoys of fuel running behind them. Can you remember Private Jessica Lynch? Have a look at what see was doing in Iraq.

                Wittmann was an exceptional tank commander who destroyed about 100 armoured vehicles. Most of them were far inferior to his own though. At Villier bocage he engaged M5 Stuarts. Hardly a fair fight. Even then MKenyy has proved his kills were exagerated for that battle. Read the thread.

                HOWEVER in Sicily one 75mm Sherman took out 3 Tigers in three minutes. Outside berlin 1 T34/85 took out 3 King Tigers in a few minutes. Rare isolated cases prove nothing. For every Wittman were 10 half trained German panzer commanders who couldn't use their vehicles properly.

                I'd recommend this book if you're interested:
                http://www.amazon.co.uk/Armored-Thun...5080433&sr=8-1

                It covers the who design and strategic development of most US tanks and tank destroyers in WW2 and compares it to German vehicle design and tactics with heavy emphasis on actual combat analysis. Well worth reading and exposes a lot of myths on all sides.

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