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Had you been in command of the German army in 1941, how would you have proceeded?

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  • Originally posted by surfinbird View Post
    With a nice collection of PDF's in an external hard drive, laptop, printer and all, i would try to decuplate technological growth. Oh Jet engines you say? Yes that one you made is nice, but here is the blueprints you will write for the future version in three years.

    To assure my time-travelling status, i would carry a Spyder Burning Laser for personal defence and disciplining unobedient or mutinous lackeys.

    "Vee Must Invade Russland! And Gather all the jews and..."
    "NEIN IDIOT!" *burns Nazi's retinas with blue laser ray*
    You'd probably need a couple of nukes, with at least one as a demo. "Either we do things my way...or Berlin goes tschuss!"
    "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

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    • Originally posted by surfinbird View Post
      With a nice collection of PDF's in an external hard drive, laptop, printer and all, i would try to decuplate technological growth. Oh Jet engines you say? Yes that one you made is nice, but here is the blueprints you will write for the future version in three years.

      To assure my time-travelling status, i would carry a Spyder Burning Laser for personal defence and disciplining unobedient or mutinous lackeys.

      "Vee Must Invade Russland! And Gather all the jews and..."
      "NEIN IDIOT!" *burns Nazi's retinas with blue laser ray*
      I hope you remember to take a European adapter for your US plugged laptop, otherwise you will rapidly be holding a very fancy pile of data unaccessible.

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      • Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
        I hope you remember to take a European adapter for your US plugged laptop, otherwise you will rapidly be holding a very fancy pile of data unaccessible.
        Right, if we're talking about the frequency difference, using a generator would be simple enough to change from 50hz to 60, but if it's the plug in, well that can be jury rigged easy enough too.
        What time traveler would be that dim witted? Oh yeah. Bill and Ted!
        "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

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        • Originally posted by smallvillekalel View Post
          Right, if we're talking about the frequency difference, using a generator would be simple enough to change from 50hz to 60, but if it's the plug in, well that can be jury rigged easy enough too.
          What time traveler would be that dim witted? Oh yeah. Bill and Ted!
          Totally bodacious, dude.

          Seriously, I met ordinary travellers who forgot that Europe had a different plug system, and these were college (or university) students.

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          • I would have started by strickly adhering to the Von Scheflin plan in the beginning by sweeping across Europe. I would have my wolf packs submarines sink as many of the convoys as much as possiable so to deny Britian any aid from Nor th America. I would also try to get as much help from Franco as possiable and also make sure that Rommel in the North African desert got as much as he needed so he could do his job . And then see how things develop if we could then plan an invasion of the U.K.

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            • Originally posted by Yankee View Post
              I would have started by strickly adhering to the Von Scheflin plan in the beginning by sweeping across Europe. I would have my wolf packs submarines sink as many of the convoys as much as possiable so to deny Britian any aid from Nor th America. I would also try to get as much help from Franco as possiable and also make sure that Rommel in the North African desert got as much as he needed so he could do his job . And then see how things develop if we could then plan an invasion of the U.K.
              Yankee, France and the Low Countries were already conquered in 1941. The Schlieffen Plan - developed to address 1914 conditions - was no longer relevant.

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              • Originally posted by Yankee View Post
                I would have started by strickly adhering to the Von Scheflin plan in the beginning by sweeping across Europe..
                Schlieffen plan was designed for war against France and Russia, I don't understand the "sweeping across Europe" statement.

                Originally posted by Yankee View Post
                I would have my wolf packs submarines sink as many of the convoys as much as possiable so to deny Britian any aid from Nor th America..
                They were trying this in the OTL, what would you do different?

                Originally posted by Yankee View Post
                I would also try to get as much help from Francoas possiable.
                Once Again, they did try this, what changes would you make?

                Originally posted by Yankee View Post
                and also make sure that Rommel in the North African desert got as much as he needed so he could do his job ..
                Read Fuhrer directive 23(should be on wiki). Rommel did get what he needed for that job.

                Originally posted by Yankee View Post
                And then see how things develop if we could then plan an invasion of the U.K.
                Invading the UK in '41 would have been a daunting task(understatement). Do you have an idea on how to pull this off?
                "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

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                • Post Balkan campaign, you utterly control continental Europe. You have a larger industrial base, and provided you maintain friendly relations with the USSR, access to unlimited resources. You have the strongest battle tested army in the world- you have in affect already won the war. You have a stronger political system (no pesky elections or public mood to worry about removing your government via the ballot box...) Simply conduct a vigorous war at sea while relentlessly conducting a propaganda campaign for negotiated end to "an obvious pointless struggle, ect., ect..." Make no attempt to expand the scope of the war, do nothing to further antagonize British or American public opinions against you. Reign in so called allies to prevent them further expanding the war, making it public that they will be written if if they blunder into war without prior consult and agreement with Germany...Time is on your side, and Britian alone can never reverse the situation...
                  If war is Hell, why was the Eastern Front so damned cold??!!

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                  • Originally posted by american1975 View Post
                    Time is on your side, and Britian alone can never reverse the situation...
                    And what do you do as the Red Army starts large scale 'exercises' on your eastern borders, the Italians are thrown out of Africa, German cities get burned to the ground by the RAF and partisan activities increase across Europe?

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                    • True, Stalin was planning to invade Germany about 5 years down the line when Moltov-Ribbentorp was signed. Hitler just beat him to the draw.

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                      • Originally posted by Jefffar View Post
                        True, Stalin was planning to invade Germany about 5 years down the line when Moltov-Ribbentorp was signed. Hitler just beat him to the draw.
                        Hmmmm, unless you have discovered something totally new in the old Soviet archives this isn't accurate. No plans for the invasion of Germany, except as part of a counterattack, have been made public. It's part of the Suvorov myth.
                        The Purist

                        Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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                        • For some reason I recall this assertion also being in Zubok and Pleshakov's book which was one of my texts in University. Regrettably I am out of reach of it at this moment to verify.

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                          • A plan for final victory...

                            Originally posted by Aber View Post
                            And what do you do as the Red Army starts large scale 'exercises' on your eastern borders, the Italians are thrown out of Africa, German cities get burned to the ground by the RAF and partisan activities increase across Europe?
                            Stalin is not going to risk provoking war, facing threats both East and West, Germany and Japan both at the height of their power. Any detailed reading of Stalin shows him to be cautious when it came to risking war, and he placed high value on the potential for trade with Germany. There was even a realistic potential for an alliance...As for worries about Red saber rattling- the uncommitted and unbeaten German army in the field would allow me to sleep well at night- Stalin will only move against weakness, not strength. 1,000,000 German soldiers busily fortifying the Eastern border, plus a large Romanian and minor satellite armies in training, will be more then enough to serve as a deterrent...

                            Without 9 tenths of the German army being committed to attritional combat in the USSR, there will more then enough troops to maintain the status quo in North Africa while a true full sea and air "Battle of the Atlantic" is being fought, and endless pleas for an end "to the pointless war...a just peace, ect., ect." wear down the will of the British public to continue a seemingly endless, unwinnable struggle...

                            It is 1941, the allied air campaign is virtually irrelevant until later 1942. With a true death stuggle going on at sea, Britian won't have the resources to waste on terror bombing- and I won't give the pretext with a Battle of Britian or conducting any major air attacks on the UK of any kind. Without the one-two punch of the British and American air forces, a strategic bombing campaign will be a failure anyways. Without the direct participation of the USA in the war, Britian will never have the resources necessary to attempt it. Without the Luftwaffee being concentrated on combat operations deep inside the USSR, it will be an impossibility...

                            With good relations being maintained with the USSR, Germany will have the resources to both feed Europe and fight the war without having to drastically lower the standard of living in Germany, or strip mine and starve Europe to artificially maintain those standards. There will be sufficient resources to maintain a tolerable standard of living in occupied Europe, and more than enough troops to police the occupied countries- therefore the resistance never gets the chance to get off the ground...

                            The whole point of this strategy is wage the war to allow for a negotiated peace with Britian. This is only possible if the war is not widened. USA absolutely must be kept neutral, and direct attacks on civilians that will negatively impact public opinion must be avoided...The American public will tolorate the war at sea, even if it costs American lives inadvertently. Burning British cities to the ground and/or threatening the Mother country with invasion will poison public opinion and give FDR room to aid the UK- that shall be avoided. Britian is bankrupt and living off the American taxpayer in a war not intended to result in her destruction- how long can this senario continue?
                            If war is Hell, why was the Eastern Front so damned cold??!!

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                            • Originally posted by american1975 View Post
                              Stalin is not going to risk provoking war, facing threats both East and West, Germany and Japan both at the height of their power. Any detailed reading of Stalin shows him to be cautious when it came to risking war, and he placed high value on the potential for trade with Germany. There was even a realistic potential for an alliance...As for worries about Red saber rattling- the uncommitted and unbeaten German army in the field would allow me to sleep well at night- Stalin will only move against weakness, not strength. 1,000,000 German soldiers busily fortifying the Eastern border, plus a large Romanian and minor satellite armies in training, will be more then enough to serve as a deterrent...

                              Without 9 tenths of the German army being committed to attritional combat in the USSR, there will more then enough troops to maintain the status quo in North Africa while a true full sea and air "Battle of the Atlantic" is being fought, and endless pleas for an end "to the pointless war...a just peace, ect., ect." wear down the will of the British public to continue a seemingly endless, unwinnable struggle...

                              It is 1941, the allied air campaign is virtually irrelevant until later 1942. With a true death stuggle going on at sea, Britian won't have the resources to waste on terror bombing- and I won't give the pretext with a Battle of Britian or conducting any major air attacks on the UK of any kind. Without the one-two punch of the British and American air forces, a strategic bombing campaign will be a failure anyways. Without the direct participation of the USA in the war, Britian will never have the resources necessary to attempt it. Without the Luftwaffee being concentrated on combat operations deep inside the USSR, it will be an impossibility...

                              With good relations being maintained with the USSR, Germany will have the resources to both feed Europe and fight the war without having to drastically lower the standard of living in Germany, or strip mine and starve Europe to artificially maintain those standards. There will be sufficient resources to maintain a tolerable standard of living in occupied Europe, and more than enough troops to police the occupied countries- therefore the resistance never gets the chance to get off the ground...

                              The whole point of this strategy is wage the war to allow for a negotiated peace with Britian. This is only possible if the war is not widened. USA absolutely must be kept neutral, and direct attacks on civilians that will negatively impact public opinion must be avoided...The American public will tolorate the war at sea, even if it costs American lives inadvertently. Burning British cities to the ground and/or threatening the Mother country with invasion will poison public opinion and give FDR room to aid the UK- that shall be avoided. Britian is bankrupt and living off the American taxpayer in a war not intended to result in her destruction- how long can this senario continue?
                              But I'm fairly sure that the Germans would be expected to actually start paying for all those resources soon. If I remember right, Stalin was making a fuss about non-payment in the months leading up to Barbarossa. So, if the Germans want to try this then they've got to give the Soviets money that they don't have and help upgrade the Soviet factories. (Sorry, but I can't recall exactly what form the payment was supposed to be in.)
                              Diadochi Rising Wargame:
                              King Pairisades I of the Bosporan Kingdom

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                              • Originally posted by Anacreon View Post
                                But I'm fairly sure that the Germans would be expected to actually start paying for all those resources soon. If I remember right, Stalin was making a fuss about non-payment in the months leading up to Barbarossa. So, if the Germans want to try this then they've got to give the Soviets money that they don't have and help upgrade the Soviet factories. (Sorry, but I can't recall exactly what form the payment was supposed to be in.)
                                The trade agreement was actually written with Germany allowed to be 6 months behind on all payments for goods recieved. The Germans went beyond that and argued over the value of the unfinished cruiser they gave Russia. Stalin wanted some very specific military technology and finished examples, but the largest payments were in the form of coal, followed by machinery. Stalin would gladly accept first rate machinery as payment from Germany- and remember, Germany has the whole continent to make good any domestic exports...
                                If war is Hell, why was the Eastern Front so damned cold??!!

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