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  • Rommel has control

    Given Rommel's preference in positioning German Panzer Divs closer to the beaches in anticipation of an Allied invasion, what, in your opinion would have been a likely outcome if the 12th SS Pz Div "Hitler Jugend" and the Panzer Lehr Div had been under Rommel's control??
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

  • #2
    They have been obliterated by Allied naval gunfire.

    Dr. S.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Doctor Sinister
      They have been obliterated by Allied naval gunfire.

      Dr. S.
      A replay of Salerno?
      How effective is artillery against armor?

      As it was, the 21st Pz Div caused a great deal of trouble for the right flank on D-Day. IMHO, one of the saving graces for that flank was the fact that 12th SS HJ wasn't ready to carry out offensive ops against the bridgehead before 7 June.
      Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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      • #4
        Exactly,the Hitlerjugend had nil combat experence,I dont see it being any different for them in any case.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by SGT Long
          Exactly,the Hitlerjugend had nil combat experence,I dont see it being any different for them in any case.
          I don't know about that......They fought fiercely in later engagements. I think that ANY armor the Germans could have gotten nearer the beaches would have had an impact. I doubt it would have stopped the invasion, but a large number of casualties would have resulted.

          Tigersqn, you are more well versed than I on this topic, any opinions?
          Lance W.

          Peace through superior firepower.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tigersqn
            A replay of Salerno?
            How effective is artillery against armor?

            As it was, the 21st Pz Div caused a great deal of trouble for the right flank on D-Day. IMHO, one of the saving graces for that flank was the fact that 12th SS HJ wasn't ready to carry out offensive ops against the bridgehead before 7 June.
            Depending on exactly where the German armor would've positioned, Allied Air power also comes into play.
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            • #7
              I don't think the naval element would have done much to them. Air power would be the deciding factor to see if the German units had any effect beyond more casualties.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by chrisvalla
                I don't think the naval element would have done much to them. Air power would be the deciding factor to see if the German units had any effect beyond more casualties.
                The role of airpower in Normandy is much misunderstood.

                It's real strength lay in isolating the battlefield.
                Allied airpower had only a limited effect in a tactical sense on the battlefield.
                Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lance Williams
                  I don't know about that......They fought fiercely in later engagements. I think that ANY armor the Germans could have gotten nearer the beaches would have had an impact. I doubt it would have stopped the invasion, but a large number of casualties would have resulted.

                  Tigersqn, you are more well versed than I on this topic, any opinions?
                  Although 12th SS HJ was, at the time of Overlord, non-operational and reduced in strength, to say that they had nil combat experience is somewhat misleading.
                  A good portion of the NCOs and almost all of the officers were combat veterans; many having come from the 1st SS LSSAH. In any case, as you say, they proved their worth shortly after D-Day.

                  Someone mentioned about locations. 21st Pz at Bayeux, Pz Lehr(a 1st class, full-strength formation) at Caen, and 12th SS HJ at Falaise.
                  Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tigersqn
                    The role of airpower in Normandy is much misunderstood.

                    It's real strength lay in isolating the battlefield.
                    Allied airpower had only a limited effect in a tactical sense on the battlefield.
                    exactly. the airpower actually did very minimal damage than what the Allies had hoped

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                    • #11
                      these two elite divisions would have launched a very effective couterattack and would have caused great dificulties to the allies: :armed:

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                      • #12
                        I think that maybe if Hitler had listened t oany of his Generals the allies may have been pushed back during the intial d-day push i think though if the allies kept pounding evenutally the germans would fall apart due to crappy supply routes and hitler
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