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Jutland 1916

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
    The success of the Battleship leads to a severe delay in the development of Aircraft Carriers by the British, causing them to fall behind in the comming arms race. While the glory of Jutland blinds british naval planners to the future of air power the germans having lost their battlefleet decide to spend the interwar years developing carrier and submarine designs based on American and Japanese work.
    Interesting analysis.

    However, perhaps the "Battleship Supremacists" would have won out in ALL the naval powers? There were plenty of hidebound big-gun theorists in the USN and IJN who would have seized on a decisive gunnery duel to argue for the same in their fleets. After all, it was the received wisdom of the time, and lots of the senior IJN officers were RN trained.

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    • #17
      the old guard still favored the big gun

      Originally posted by Baldric View Post
      Interesting analysis.

      However, perhaps the "Battleship Supremacists" would have won out in ALL the naval powers? There were plenty of hidebound big-gun theorists in the USN and IJN who would have seized on a decisive gunnery duel to argue for the same in their fleets. After all, it was the received wisdom of the time, and lots of the senior IJN officers were RN trained.
      but it was to be the energy and vision of the junior officers that would prevail in the major navies. Yamamoto, and later Halsey would have battleships as their flagships, not for their combat power, but for their safety, since carriers were the front line and the most sought out to attack.
      "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

      "One finger is all any real American needs"

      "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
        but it was to be the energy and vision of the junior officers that would prevail in the major navies. Yamamoto, and later Halsey would have battleships as their flagships, not for their combat power, but for their safety, since carriers were the front line and the most sought out to attack.
        Agreed, but we are talking here about 1916 and the immediate aftermath.

        In the real world, big gun ships didn't achieve that much in 1914-18. If there had been a really decisive naval engagement, it would have strengthened the position of the old guard, at the expense of the juniors of whom you speak. It might even have altered the views of the youngsters, whose opinions were being formed at that time.

        We will never know. Thats the fun of alternate timelines.

        Baldric

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ;1177450
          Dismount all those cannon and you have more than enough artillery, plus Strategic artillery that would improve the power of the entire Army.

          Originally posted by Baldric View Post
          I'm not a heavy arty expert, but I would be surprised if such a thing could be achieved quickly. Presumably you would need to design specialist mounts and railway carriages (at least!).

          It had used to be commonplace to take naval cannon ashore temporarily, but I am not aware of any mass re-deployment of breech loading, turret mounted naval guns being used for anything other than coastal batteries. But I am sure some-one will pop up with an example to prove me wrong!
          Not very practical. Superheavy artillery is very seldom worth the effort. The lighter cannon in the 8 to 15 cm calibers have some possibilites. but, building several thousand or even several hundred field carriages for them may not be practical. Also the naval guns were designed for limited firing most wear out before 2000 rounds and many can manage less than 500. One or two large scale attacks and the 'naval artillery' regiments would be ready for a complete overhaul.

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          • #20
            true, even a battle the size of Jutland did much press

            Originally posted by Baldric View Post
            Agreed, but we are talking here about 1916 and the immediate aftermath.

            In the real world, big gun ships didn't achieve that much in 1914-18. If there had been a really decisive naval engagement, it would have strengthened the position of the old guard, at the expense of the juniors of whom you speak. It might even have altered the views of the youngsters, whose opinions were being formed at that time.

            We will never know. Thats the fun of alternate timelines.

            Baldric
            especially compared to figures like the RED BARON; it would be pilots who would capture the imagination of the next generation with their exploits, rendering all but forgotten the great battle fleets of the world
            "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

            "One finger is all any real American needs"

            "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

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            • #21
              US, British and Japanese Naval aircraft would have continued to make the same revolutionary strides that they did all throughout the 1920's and 30's and there was nothing that the "Big gun Admirals" could do about them except eventually accept the inevitable, as their day had already passed.
              "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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              • #22
                But many in each navy still clinged to the idea of the great battleline

                Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                US, British and Japanese Naval aircraft would have continued to make the same revolutionary strides that they did all throughout the 1920's and 30's and there was nothing that the "Big gun Admirals" could do about them except eventually accept the inevitable, as their day had already passed.
                Captain: Kapitšn zur See Ernst Lindemann stated that as a cadet he dreamed of commanding a German battle squadron in the next war from his days seeing the High Sees Fleet.

                Admiral Kimmel invisioned a great battleship duel between the Japanese and his Pacific Fleet.

                The Japanese romantasized about Admiral Togo defeat of the Russians
                "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

                "One finger is all any real American needs"

                "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

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                • #23
                  Mind you, I'll bet Admiral Nishimura wished Jesse Oldendorff didnt have battleships available to him at the Surigao Straits, even though they were thought 'obsolete' when compared to the carrier - trouble was, there werent any Fleet carriers around, were there? Halsey had taken them all.
                  HONNEUR ET FID…LIT…

                  "Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won." - Duke of Wellington at Waterloo.

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