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  • Get Winnie

    The following is a WHAT IF scenario, and assumes that all logistics (troops, developments, supplies, infrastructure, etc) are in place to make this historical fiction a valid historical alternative. Again this is a What If it happened, not a Could It have happened scenario.

    The German High Command recognizes that if Churchil should become Prime Minister that he will rally the British against them, so they devise a couple of special ops to try and "Get Winnie". German espionage agents are asigned to catalogue Churchill's activities as First Sea Lord, and establish a patern; that once a month he flies upto Scapa Flow for Home Fleet inspection - visiting the largest ship in port at the time. The rest of his days are spent in the Admiralty building. Germany selects one of its best U-Boat Commanders - GŁnther Prien to lead his U-47 to torpedo Britains largest warship at anchor at the time, the Battleship Royal Oak. Their second phase is based on discovered aquaduct/sewer plans running from the Thames to the Admiralty which are given to an elite SS unit to go in and kill Churchill and his staff.
    "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

    "One finger is all any real American needs"

    "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

  • #2
    Like the dozen other failed attempts ?

    Churchill was Prime Minister at a desperate time and made a decent fist of the job. The British war-effort was bigger than one man, though, even if that man was Churchill.
    Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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    • #3
      But Churchill was the indespensable spine when it was needed

      Originally posted by the ace View Post
      Like the dozen other failed attempts ?

      Churchill was Prime Minister at a desperate time and made a decent fist of the job. The British war-effort was bigger than one man, though, even if that man was Churchill.
      The Battle of Britain was as much a test of will's and personal strength of leadership as it was an air blitz. Of all the allied leaders only Churchill had the personality/ego/presence etc. to defeat Hitler one on one. Charisma and stuborness won the day for Britain.
      "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

      "One finger is all any real American needs"

      "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
        The Battle of Britain was as much a test of will's and personal strength of leadership as it was an air blitz. Of all the allied leaders only Churchill had the personality/ego/presence etc. to defeat Hitler one on one. Charisma and stuborness won the day for Britain.
        And a load of pilots and groundcrews who just would not blink.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
          Charisma and stuborness won the day for Britain.
          and the fact the British had been busy developing an effective air defense system since the first German air offensive on Britain in 1915.

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          • #6
            under the same pacifism that had infected the USA between the wars

            Originally posted by redcoat View Post
            and the fact the British had been busy developing an effective air defense system since the first German air offensive on Britain in 1915.
            With the Swordfish being the most effective combat plane in Britain, just how much progress was made elsewhere?
            "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

            "One finger is all any real American needs"

            "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
              With the Swordfish being the most effective combat plane in Britain, just how much progress was made elsewhere?

              Well the first integrated, radar guided intercept and early warning system is the key development. And a couple of very good fighters to boot.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                With the Swordfish being the most effective combat plane in Britain, just how much progress was made elsewhere?
                You have heard of the Spitfire and Hurricane right??

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by joea View Post
                  You have heard of the Spitfire and Hurricane right??

                  Yeah I was wondering that myself. They werent too bad those two planes were they?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    heard of them, but like the Luftwaffe, never seen them

                    Originally posted by joea View Post
                    You have heard of the Spitfire and Hurricane right??
                    As I recall the British air marshal was almost sacked for not transferring fighters to France when it might have mattered because he had precious little to work with.
                    "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

                    "One finger is all any real American needs"

                    "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dowding was sacked after the BoB.

                      He didn't want to send more fighters to France at the expense of Britain's defences (there were 24 squadons of Hurricanes in France as part of the AASF but many had been lost. Dowding decided enough was enough).

                      Churchill didn't like the decision but history vindicated it, so Dowding was allowed to save Britain before he got the chop.
                      Last edited by the ace; 18 Apr 09, 08:31.
                      Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                        With the Swordfish being the most effective combat plane in Britain,
                        It wasn't the most effective plane in Britain, it was merely the most effective torpedo plane in WW2 in terms of tonnage sunk

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                        • #13
                          for its role it did more to change the course of war in europe

                          Originally posted by redcoat View Post
                          It wasn't the most effective plane in Britain, it was merely the most effective torpedo plane in WW2 in terms of tonnage sunk
                          of course the most famoue being Bismarck and Taranto; and most every major production aircraft had bragging rites for something.
                          "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

                          "One finger is all any real American needs"

                          "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Like the Lockeed Ventura, TBD Devastator.....

                            The Swordfish did the job it was designed to do very well. Despite being an old, slow biplane, using both torpedoes and rockets to sink or damage a wide variety of shipping, including U-boats.
                            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                              The Battle of Britain was as much a test of will's and personal strength of leadership as it was an air blitz. Of all the allied leaders only Churchill had the personality/ego/presence etc. to defeat Hitler one on one. Charisma and stuborness won the day for Britain.
                              German fighters only having 30 minutes of fuel over southern Britain also had something to do with it and having Enigma decrypts helped, too.

                              Comment

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