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Long forgotten treaty clause returns Quebec to France in 1936

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  • Long forgotten treaty clause returns Quebec to France in 1936

    Here is where we really go With the fall of France, Quebec goes Vichy and western hemisphere patrol zones are scrapped. Negoiations are fast and furious between Quebec and Germany for use of sea ports and air bases.

    One possible spin off is with the war now on North American soil, Isolationism causes FDR to lose to Lindburg who immiediately breaks ties with Britain to foster those with Germany.

    With America firmly neutral, and north atlantic convoy routes paralized between Canada and Britain, the English realize that they are alone and cut off, the introduction of German missiles into the heart of England finally compell Churchill to negociate peace.

    ok, i think that is a good start, now I will go take my meds
    "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

    "One finger is all any real American needs"

    "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

  • #2
    I don't think Quebec would have been allowed to go Vichy. It would have been invaded and a Free French government established in fairly short order.

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    • #3
      Look up St Pierre and Miquelon

      A Vichy outpost in the western hemisphere invaded by the Free French in December 1941

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      • #4
        Do we know anything of Quebec attitudes and politics of the 1930s? Would the citizens have had any sympathy for the ultra conservative Vichy leaders? My first thought is the Quebec leaders would be largely uninterested in European politcs and only pay pro forma atention to the Vichy government. The pathetically small Free French forces of 1941-42 would be unable to do anything about Quebec without British help, and British intervention in Quebec and Canadia affairs is a unplesant can of worms to contemplate.

        I'd think Quebec mght either take a nuetrality policy at least intially, then perhaps later in late 1942 or 43 give the Allied cause some support. Perhaps even a Quebec brigade to help liberate France?

        Worst case is a ultra right wing or Facist Quebec government. If that supported the Axis cause then a 'Free Quebec' movement and government would appear, probablly under US sponsorship for politcal acceptability. As with the pro Axis governments of Brazil or Argentina US pressure would eventually cause the Quebec government to see "reason".

        A US invasion of a Axis Quebec is a subject for a comedy. 'Michgan National Guard Captures Windsor!' Oh wait, thats not...

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        • #5
          Quebec stays Vichy until when/if US entry

          Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
          I don't think Quebec would have been allowed to go Vichy. It would have been invaded and a Free French government established in fairly short order.
          With most of French colonies going Vichy, England could do nothing about it as long as she stands alone. While the RN would have kept supplies flowing, they would have taken longer having to bypass Quebec waterways.
          "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

          "One finger is all any real American needs"

          "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

          Comment


          • #6
            How??? with most of their fleet being Vichy

            Originally posted by Aber View Post
            Look up St Pierre and Miquelon

            A Vichy outpost in the western hemisphere invaded by the Free French in December 1941
            If the Free French could invade any Vichy territory, why pick the furthest away?
            "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

            "One finger is all any real American needs"

            "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
              With most of French colonies going Vichy, England could do nothing about it as long as she stands alone. While the RN would have kept supplies flowing, they would have taken longer having to bypass Quebec waterways.
              The RN wouldn't have needed to do anything. That is why they had the RCN. The rest of Canada would not have sat still for it. Nor would the US.

              What goes for Quebec is that Canada still had major naval and air bases in Newfoundland. Halifax for starters.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                If the Free French could invade any Vichy territory, why pick the furthest away?
                The answer should be obvious

                Because it was so far away. Little or no resistance and because they could. Even the longest journey starts with the first step.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
                  I don't think Quebec would have been allowed to go Vichy. It would have been invaded and a Free French government established in fairly short order.
                  Free French government? I would guess it would have returned to Canadain control, as it should be.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The U.S. would not be involved until Hitler declared war

                    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                    The RN wouldn't have needed to do anything. That is why they had the RCN. The rest of Canada would not have sat still for it. Nor would the US.

                    What goes for Quebec is that Canada still had major naval and air bases in Newfoundland. Halifax for starters.
                    And population wise, I dont think British Canada would have any advantage over French Quebec.

                    If Vichy French Quebec refused use of its airspace and waterways, then Canadian deployment to Europe would have some delay, they could not go through the US as long as we were neutral.
                    "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

                    "One finger is all any real American needs"

                    "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                      If Vichy French Quebec refused use of its airspace and waterways, then Canadian deployment to Europe would have some delay, they could not go through the US as long as we were neutral.
                      Actually a lot of items did. The nuetrallity stopped little. In 1939 both the Brtish and French placed large orders for combat aircraft to US industry, ditto for ammunition, machine tools, chemicals... US shipyards were contracted to take on the refurbishment of French warships above what French naval yards could handle. in the summer of 1940 a French battleship was undergoing refit in a US port.

                      Germany was handicapped by the Allied blockade, but was able to obtain via nuetral nations a wide variety of miltiarily critical products fro the US.

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                      • #12
                        But was equal allowance made to both Free and Vichy French

                        Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                        Actually a lot of items did. The nuetrallity stopped little. In 1939 both the Brtish and French placed large orders for combat aircraft to US industry, ditto for ammunition, machine tools, chemicals... US shipyards were contracted to take on the refurbishment of French warships above what French naval yards could handle. in the summer of 1940 a French battleship was undergoing refit in a US port.

                        Germany was handicapped by the Allied blockade, but was able to obtain via nuetral nations a wide variety of miltiarily critical products fro the US.
                        If the battleship that was refiting was/became Vichy what would have happened? Would she be ordered to sea still before work was done, and if that resulted in deaths wouldn't that have further alienated Vichy from the West?
                        "America has gone to hell since John Wayne died". - Al Bundy

                        "One finger is all any real American needs"

                        "A gesture is worth a thousand words - but you usually only need two"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                          Here is where we really go With the fall of France, Quebec goes Vichy
                          Quebec would basically be surrounded by Commonwealth powers. Canada on two sides and Newfoundland on a third. The US is to the south.

                          Neither Canada nor the US would tolerate axis control of the St. Lawrence seaway. Canadian divisions would quickly occupy a strip from Montreal to Quebec city with support of about 50% of the population of Quebec and the US. The other 50% of Quebec's population would be apathetic. Quebec would very quickly defect or be made to defect to the Free French side even if its politicians were Vichy. Quebec will still have most of its economy based on trade with Canada and the US so it will have strong Free French leanings.

                          Much of the Francophone population of Quebec was isolationist. Many of them sat out the war. Some however did serve with distinction like the 22 regiment and the Trois Rivieres regiment. No reason to think that would change.

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                          • #14
                            By "the West" you mean Britian and the US? Germany and Italy fall under the usuall usage of the term 'the West'. The Vichy government was already alienated from the British due to the naval battle in late June. The US government impounded aircraft, chemicals for munitions, machine tools, electroinic communications equipment which the French government had ordered and already paid for, for its miltiary use.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mojolocobell99 View Post
                              With most of French colonies going Vichy, England could do nothing about it as long as she stands alone. While the RN would have kept supplies flowing, they would have taken longer having to bypass Quebec waterways.

                              Why would the RN have to bypass them. What can Quebec do about it. Nada

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