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What if the Allies won the war in 1939?

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  • What if the Allies won the war in 1939?

    What would be our world today if there was THE SHORT WAR OF 1939 ending in Germany surrender in November 1939?

    Let's assume that the allies attacked in the West in September 1939. Germany wasn't able to defend it's western frontier and didn't get any help from it's Soviet "friends". The war ended in negociated peace in December 1939. Hitler was removed from from the offfice. The Nazi Party was banned in Germany. Weimer Republic was established again. Germany had to pay war reparations to Poland but was not disarmed. Czechoslovakia and Austria were again independent states. Aside from that there was no border changes. The Ribbentrop - Molotov Treaty was made public in January 1940.
    Assuming all of that happened, what would be the course of history?
    The Soviet attack on Europe? Japanese-USA Pacific war of 1942?
    What about Israel? Would it arise as a state? Would the Chinese communist win the civil war?And finally, would there have been the Second World War of some kind? How would our world look like today?....

  • #2
    Given the total appeasement attitude of Europe at the time, I can't imagine a scenario in which this could plausibly happen.

    Who would have attacked Germany? Certainly not France or England, and they were the only ones that might have had a chance at the time. Not America at all, because we were still in an isolationist mode until '41.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #3
      The Japanese would still've attacked. There was too much at stake for them, so there would've been a Pacific war either way.
      Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by the ace View Post
        The Japanese would still've attacked. There was too much at stake for them, so there would've been a Pacific war either way.
        Hmm Japan became bolder because of the situation in Europe AFAIK.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by the ace View Post
          The Japanese would still've attacked. There was too much at stake for them, so there would've been a Pacific war either way.
          But the Soviets would have made it a two front war for Japan...........not good for Japan.
          Lance W.

          Peace through superior firepower.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by the ace View Post
            The Japanese would still've attacked. There was too much at stake for them, so there would've been a Pacific war either way.
            That's true,Asian ww2 was all ready started in 1935. The Japanese forces had the same plan as Nazi Germany to couque other nations,so they can exspand there empire.
            If Germany never started ww2 in europe,germany might have focus all the weaker countries Australia and Newzealand.
            Last edited by Heidi; 25 Mar 09, 20:05.

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            • #7
              Of course, given Stalin's appetite for vast tracts of Europe, maybe he'd've moved West at some point anyway. We know about the Baltic states and a slice of Finland, without Hitler going for his throat how long would Poland (or a dozen other countries) have survived ?
              Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Given the total appeasement attitude of Europe at the time, I can't imagine a scenario in which this could plausibly happen.

                Who would have attacked Germany? Certainly not France or England, and they were the only ones that might have had a chance at the time. Not America at all, because we were still in an isolationist mode until '41.
                Apeasment was not "total", particularly in the second half of 1939. The German abrogation of the Munich agreement in early 1939 & the occupation of Prague & subsequent dismemberment of Cezchoslovakia turned much of Fench & British public opinion agaisnt 'Apeasement'. Germanys action in Cezchoslovakia also cause Chamberlian and his supporters to realize they had been played for fools. The Fench came to the same conclusion.

                The problem for the Brits and French after March 1939 was the same they had before in 1938. Neither was prepared for a war, and they knew the Poles were not either. For the French the Munich agreement had been a gambit to buy time for rearming the French military. They needed three to four years to build the new models of aircraft, artillery, and tanks needed for a sustained stratigic offensives against the Germans. At least thats what they thought. Gamelin & the airforce chief Vuellimen thought the Wehrmacht & Luftwaffe much stronger than they actually were. In the case of Britian the army was litle more than a training cadre, the RAF just converting to modern Hurricane fighters and its airdefense system incomplete and untrained.

                While Chamberlain and several of his group did honestly believe Apeasment might work in 1938 there were many other British leaders and most French leaders who saw this as only a way to buy the years they needed to rearm and retrain. The inability of the Allies to attack imeadiatly in a large way in September 1939 had a number or reasons, but Apeasement policys were not amoung them.

                The bottom line is Apeasement as a policy was dead by the summer of 1939. Kliene-Albrandt wrote a number of good books and monographs on this subject. I'd recomend them to anyone who thinks to comment on the subject of Apeasement.

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                • #9
                  If you REALLY knew what the situation was like in Europe at that time! Not in your wildest dreams would such a situation exsist,it just cannot hold water as a conversation!!
                  'By Horse by Tram'.


                  I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                  " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                  • #10
                    This needs to go to the Alternate History Forum.
                    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mariusz4302 View Post
                      What would be our world today if there was THE SHORT WAR OF 1939 ending in Germany surrender in November 1939?

                      Let's assume that the allies attacked in the West in September 1939. Germany wasn't able to defend it's western frontier and didn't get any help from it's Soviet "friends". The war ended in negociated peace in December 1939. Hitler was removed from from the offfice. The Nazi Party was banned in Germany. Weimer Republic was established again. Germany had to pay war reparations to Poland but was not disarmed. Czechoslovakia and Austria were again independent states. Aside from that there was no border changes. The Ribbentrop - Molotov Treaty was made public in January 1940.
                      Assuming all of that happened, what would be the course of history?
                      The Soviet attack on Europe? Japanese-USA Pacific war of 1942?
                      What about Israel? Would it arise as a state? Would the Chinese communist win the civil war?And finally, would there have been the Second World War of some kind? How would our world look like today?....
                      Very good thread poser, would an Britain, French, german alliance have formed to thwart the communist menace of Russia?

                      The Japanese and USA would have still fought , if the Americans had continued to blockade Japan.

                      Israel independence fighters would not have seen Britain flee from their terror tactics so easily had it not been weakened by war and a harassing pro Zionist USA.

                      There would have been as you allude a more massive Japanese involvement in the chinese mainland, perhaps a treaty between the two asian giants to ward off US moves in the pacific.
                      I dunno I was drunk at the time...a sinner before God.

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                      • #12
                        The problem for the Brits and French after March 1939 was the same they had before in 1938. Neither was prepared for a war, and they knew the Poles were not either. For the French the Munich agreement had been a gambit to buy time for rearming the French military. They needed three to four years to build the new models of aircraft, artillery, and tanks needed for a sustained stratigic offensives against the Germans. At least thats what they thought. Gamelin & the airforce chief Vuellimen thought the Wehrmacht & Luftwaffe much stronger than they actually were. In the case of Britian the army was litle more than a training cadre, the RAF just converting to modern Hurricane fighters and its airdefense system incomplete and untrained. quote
                        That is what is so baffling to an amateur , why was Britain so unprepared?

                        They knew Russia was a growing imminent menace, that Hitler was massing super armed forces.

                        Why when they were receiving war reparations from the Germans, were they so inept at building up a modern effective force?

                        They suffered so much slaughter in WW1 like the French , surely they would have learnt that lesson?

                        How could a near bankrupt Germany Build up such a massive assault force?

                        And The Brits and French be so contemptuosly naked?
                        Last edited by 1984 Brother; 26 Mar 09, 01:14.
                        I dunno I was drunk at the time...a sinner before God.

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                        • #13
                          Wait a min,What war? If the Allies did win the war in 1939 there would not have been a war in the first place.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heidi View Post
                            Wait a min,What war? If the Allies did win the war in 1939 there would not have been a war in the first place.
                            Well it would have been a short drooping war as opposed to a long thrusting expansive one, but still a war.
                            I dunno I was drunk at the time...a sinner before God.

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                            • #15
                              I see, like a 3 month war!
                              How about the Rusians?They were still with Germany at 1939,so for the Allies too win the war, how can they?

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