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Germany wins the Bulge, then what?

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  • #61
    My above post was refering to the fact that the offensive caught the Allies so flat-footed. It was a total surprise.

    One thing that prevented it form becoming a disaster was the fact that the Americans were NOT the "Italians of the Allies", as Hitler called them. Isolated, out-numberd and out-gunned troops still stood their ground and fought.

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    • #62
      If Germany won the Bulge it would have only deferred their inevitable defeat. The Russians still take Berlin and probably a larger slice of Germany to boot. West Germany is never born. Maybe the cold war lasts another 10 years or more. The soviets may have been emboldened enough to take Austria and the Balkans/Greece. We'll never know.
      God Save The Republic.

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      • #63
        ..yep, no doubt the tenacity and fight displayed by small scale American units during those first critical days were fundemantally important in setting up the final allied squeeze on the bulge, yes there were instances of cowardice displyed by officer and enlisted man, but the US authorites rightly slammed down hard on these men, ( well, ..actually they shot them....), but it is difficul to imagine a poorer set of circumstancesw to which to face the Germans that during the Bulge attack, and i take my hat off to all these true American heroes for what they accomplished...

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
          Stavelot was in the planned path of the advance, fortunatly the US 2d & 99th Divsions prevented that advance. Peipers battle group was susposed to pass directly thru the Stavelot area, his primary Rollbahns went of either side of and through the town. However the resistance by the US Corps on and behind Elsenbourne Ridge halted the forces that would have cleared Piepers flank and covered it. That allowed miscl US corps and army battalions of Engineers, Antiaircraft, Tank Destroyers... to fill in and divert Peiper from his primary route. Instead of advancing down his designated primary Rollbahns on the better roads he took his battle group along the southernmost Rollbahn follwing a distictly secondary set of roads. Had Peiper disobeyed orders to avoid resistance and go around defensive positions there is a chance he could have pushed through the light defenses, moved into the rear of the 2d & 99th Divsion, and captured the larger supply dump at Stavelot.
          I was gonna make a new thread but my good friend has posted some important information to consider.

          'What If' Peiper's KG does capture the fuel/supply dump at Stavelot, leaves
          Heavy Tanks as flank guards, Tigers as next level of flank guards, and moves
          Panthers, MkIVs, Lighter Vehicles and Infantry as far forward as possible still
          on the primary road network? Let's have at it!
          SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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          • #65
            Originally posted by dgfred View Post
            I was gonna make a new thread but my good friend has posted some important information to consider.

            'What If' Peiper's KG does capture the fuel/supply dump at Stavelot, leaves
            Heavy Tanks as flank guards, Tigers as next level of flank guards, and moves
            Panthers, MkIVs, Lighter Vehicles and Infantry as far forward as possible still
            on the primary road network? Let's have at it!
            As I hinted at; if Peiper gets across the the river or stream his KG will be threantening the rear of the US 2d & 99th Divsions. That could cause them to pull back to refuse their flank, so the Bulge would widen a bit. what happens after that I cant guess.

            & Gregg we need to recruit some opponents for a blind game this year. As much time and effort as it took I miss it anyway.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
              As I hinted at; if Peiper gets across the the river or stream his KG will be threantening the rear of the US 2d & 99th Divsions. That could cause them to pull back to refuse their flank, so the Bulge would widen a bit. what happens after that I cant guess.

              & Gregg we need to recruit some opponents for a blind game this year. As much time and effort as it took I miss it anyway.

              Thanks for the answer pal. You know I'm ready when you are .
              SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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              • #67
                Count me in. Either side, I would love to have a battalion to maneuver in that action.

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                • #68
                  I will kill anyone you want to have die if you let me play...
                  "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

                  BoRG

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                  • #69
                    Well Gregg, we will see if these two can handle the yawning black abyss of the unknown. Facing a game board stripped of all mathmatical certainity and populatied by the terrifyng shadows ofthe Unspoted rule

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                    • #70
                      Facing a game board stripped of all mathmatical certainity and populatied by the terrifyng shadows ofthe Unspoted rule

                      Sounds more realistic, and much more interesting.

                      Hey, you are talking to an old Cav. Scout here. If there is no mystery on the battlefield, Im out of a job!

                      Now... if I could get my hands on an Armored Cavalry Regiment, with all the trimmings....

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                        Facing a game board stripped of all mathmatical certainity and populatied by the terrifyng shadows ofthe Unspoted rule

                        Sounds more realistic, and much more interesting.

                        Hey, you are talking to an old Cav. Scout here. If there is no mystery on the battlefield, Im out of a job!

                        Now... if I could get my hands on an Armored Cavalry Regiment, with all the trimmings....

                        My man Carl can probably hook you up with some Cav.
                        SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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                        • #72
                          This would be a good challenge too;
                          Play the part of 1st SS Panzer that is supposed to keep in contact with Peiper.

                          Take two infantry battalions, an assault-gun battalion, and whatever Tigers he leaves behind, and try to get up with that maniac.
                          Yippie-Kai-Yay!

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                          • #73
                            The Allies might sue for peace or might try going through another part of France
                            "The people never have the power, only the illusion of it. And here is the real secret: they don't want it. The responsibility is too great to bear. It's why they are so quick to fall in line as soon as someone else takes charge."
                            "

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