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Hitler Assassinated

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  • Hitler Assassinated

    With the movie Valkyrie coming out soon it got me to thinking about the actual real plot to assassinate Hitler. I will confess I am not an expert on the situation but after reading about the plot it seems it could have worked, provided Hitler actually died. The question then becomes, what would the Allies have done? Would they still ask for unconditional surrender or try to end the war quickly to stop the bloodshed? Would Russia simply stop or continue on to Berlin?

    On another note, would the assassination of Hitler by say an Allied OSS team, or Russian special forces team, have been an option? Would it turn Hitler into a martyr for the German people and make them defend more fiercely to the end?

    I did a quick search on Operation Valkyrie a few days ago and did not see anything about this topic so I apologize if its been started already.

    Dan Stueber

  • #2
    The Unconditional Surrender policy was aimed at Facism in general, it applied to Italy and Japan as well, and to German militarism specifically. It was not aimed at Hitler personally. While hitler was recognized as the key German leader there was not the same obssesion with him as these days. The Allied leaders accepted the Unconditional Surrender policy as a key part of the foundation of establishing some sort of future peace globally. They were recalling how the half measures and failures of the Versailles Treaty represented a larger failure to suppress militarism in Europe twentyfive years earlier.

    When the assasination attempt of 1944 became know the Allied leaders made several public pronouncements that a sucessfull coup or assasination would change nothing in Allied policy.

    Were you aware that Hilter came within ten minutes of dying in a bomb explosion in 1939?

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan..._attempts.html

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    • #3
      well, Had Valkyrie succeeded, I think the shock of Hitler assassination would spark a collapse of the German forces, especially in the West - and that despite some fight from the SS and other apparatus but quickly the interests of Himmler and the fleeing of many Nazi officials would make the whole structure collapse.

      also, the forces held back in reserve would not be used in the west to hold the Alies andf thus british and US forces would advance well into Germany, making it all collapse.

      indeed, there would be no negotiated peace, especially with the Soviet Red Army pushing.... but probably a successfull Hitler assassination would have made the war in europe ending in the following weeks with the avoidance of millions of German dead, the liberation of many more camps and death camps prisoners, less Allied (especially russian) dead in the taking of Germany proper, and less hardship for Germany (and Hungary) in the years following the war.
      "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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      • #4
        David Irving made the point: "If only someone had thought to bring a pistol"....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by apteryx View Post
          David Irving made the point: "If only someone had thought to bring a pistol"....
          I think no one was allowed weapons near Hitler. but I am not sure if that's true.
          "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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          • #6
            Carl,

            Thats an interesting website. I never knew there was an assassination plot in 1939.

            I do think the Germans, if the assassination succeeded, would have defended less against the western Allies to allow them to have as much of Germany as possible, while they would have tried to slow down the Russians even more. I do think the SS units would have tried for a take over but would have failed.

            However, if Hitler was assassinated by the Allies I believe Germany might have tried to hold on as long as possible. He would have become a martyr in their eyes.

            Wasn't there a movie, one of the Dirty Dozen, that had a sniper with a shot at Hitler but he instead shot a German general?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
              I think no one was allowed weapons near Hitler. but I am not sure if that's true.
              They weren't allowed bombs either but the plotters.....

              What is the opinion of posters - were the plotters traitors or heroes?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by apteryx View Post
                They weren't allowed bombs either but the plotters.....

                What is the opinion of posters - were the plotters traitors or heroes?
                true enough.

                they were both traitors and heroes. traitors to their oath. but heroes to try to safe the suffering of their population. just like the anti-iraq war people of today, they are both.
                "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BooBoo130 View Post
                  Carl,

                  Thats an interesting website. I never knew there was an assassination plot in 1939.
                  I'm not sure if a one man operation can be called a 'plot'. It is interesting that a ordinary workingman could come as close to offing Hitler as the large group of senior army officers with all their resources and knowledge.

                  Exactly what happens after Hitler stops breathing depends on what actions of the conspritors suceed next.

                  I would think that for many decades afterwards folks will be claiming Germany still could have won the war... "If only the genius leader Hilter had not been assasinated." Another 'Stab In the Back' myth for militarists and Facists to cry over.

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                  • #10
                    Of Hitler had been killed in 1939, I dont think the war would have happened at all. He was the one pushing for it, and he was about the only non yes-man that was enthusiastic about persuing it, even at the start of 1940.

                    Then again, maybe Stalin would have started something, and it would have been even worse...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                      . . .Were you aware that Hilter came within ten minutes of dying in a bomb explosion in 1939?

                      http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan..._attempts.html
                      Yes, I was, but not the details. Did not Hitler or some Nazis blame the British? Or do I recall incorrectly. . .

                      Was Canaris involved at all in any of these efforts?
                      http://www.ironbrigade.net

                      Chat about anything on my board - pets, politics, whatever

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kirasjeri View Post
                        Yes, I was, but not the details. Did not Hitler or some Nazis blame the British? Or do I recall incorrectly. . .

                        Was Canaris involved at all in any of these efforts?
                        You recall correctly. The Gestapo spent the next six years trying to uncover how the British pulled this off. The kept the assasin alive right up into the Spring of 1945 in the hope that he would eventually give up the information. The Gestapo used a some thin circumstantial evidence to conncet him to a British agent operating in Holland. that led to the Venlo incident where two British agents were snatched off the street in Holland and hustled across the border into Germany and six years imprisonment. They never could accept that a carpenter could do this on his own.

                        What Canaris was involved in is difficult to pin down. He seemed to have a instinct for these games, or else he was less involved than many people suspose. The evidence that remained in the Gestapon records after the war was fairly thin. But, bits and pieces collected by historians post war create a hell of a lot of questions about him.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
                          I think no one was allowed weapons near Hitler. but I am not sure if that's true.
                          indeed you are right Piero, following the 20th July attempt all officers sidearms had to be surrendered before going into Hitler.
                          "The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse."- General Heinz Guderian


                          "Oakland Raiders: Committed to Excellence"

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                          • #14
                            I believe the extremists would have taken revenge on all involved. Most of the troops would not have stopped fighting the Russians as they were hated. I think they would have tried to sue for peace in the West, but never would they have stopped fighting the Russians if they still the will and the means to.
                            "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                            -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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                            • #15
                              Recently, I watched a series called "Hitler's Bodyguards" on the UKTV History channel. Apparently there had been an estimated 40 assassination attempts on Gefreiter Shicklgruber. As has been mentioned on one thread, Stalin considered an assassination attempt as far back as 1938, employing a British agent to kill Hitler.

                              What surprised me was that Armaments Minister Albert Speer plotted to kill Hitler towards the end of the war. With the Allies closing in on Germany from both sides, Hitler planned a scorched earth policy that would affect Germany itself. Speer thought this was abhorrent and began to plot against Hitler. One option was to drop Tabun-a nerve agent down the air vent of Hitler's Berlin bunker. The whole plot was revealed to an Allied interrogator by an associate of Speer's. Which is probably why Speer was spared the death penalty after the Nuremburg trials, never mind him telling Goering to go fly a kite and apologising for his actions as Armaments Minister.
                              Hitler played Golf. His bunker shot was a hole in one.

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