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First Battle of the Marne

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ace_General View Post
    Now, where could I get TOAW for free peferably downloadable, that would work on a mac
    Not free, but significantly discounted:

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...52#post1052152

    Post at their home site as to whether it works on a mac or check specs.

    Best,

    GS
    Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
    (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by raum_schiff View Post
      It depends on the defeat scenario :
      A concentration of the 1st,2nd and 3rd German army corps on the North West of Paris with only the 6th French Army and the BEF facing them would surely have resulted into a breach and therefore the siege of Paris with a quick (but bloody) endgame.

      If we stay on the original positions of troops on the 5th of september 1914 and remain realistic :
      September 7, the german 1st AC breaks the French 6th and rushes towards Paris while securing its left flank against the BEF which comes to late. At the same time 2nd and 5th German AC make their breach and turn West.

      The siege of Paris would have seen:
      - BEF(ok) + remaining 6th(broken) and 5th French(forced march) AC
      VS
      - 1st German AC(exhausted) + 2nd and 3rd German AC(heavy casualties)

      The key element would have been the German supply routes (quite thin).
      The scale goes down from 99% to roughly 50%.

      Best regards,
      Raum_Schiff.
      I'd agree with this. my point is that with france beaten - decisively, there is no point for britain or russia - who had no clear objectives in this war (except to weaken germany and AH) to keep fighting.
      "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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      • #18
        then ww1 would have finished earlier than expected
        Oh Sure The Old Man's Off His Rocker If Grampa Says He's Dead He Must Be Alive
        Grampa Simpson

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        • #19
          and what of ww2, would we have a french hitler who dosn't like, oh, Asian people or something

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Ace_General View Post
            and what of ww2, would we have a french hitler who dosn't like, oh, Asian people or something
            Interesting idea. The Frenchmen who thirsted for revenge over 1871 and plotted the return of Alsace & Lorraine were fairly fanatical and give a clue how tha sort of thisng could develop in French politics. France had a strong conservative streak in its population and facisit ideas were popular amoung some from the 1920s. Anti Semitism was a significant factor in France from Medival times, and still was in the 1930s. So, it is not impossible a 'new Napoleon' or other sort of charismatic leader could create a facist and militant party.

            So? De Gualle leading a powerfull mechanized army in a lighting attack to encirclle the Ruhr and collapse the fusty old 1914 sytle German army? France Allied with japan to dismatle the empires of Russian and Britian who had deserted France in its hour of need? I sense a Alt History book in the mists here.

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            • #21
              no, I dont' buy a resurgent France had it lost ww1. first because Hitler and Nazism were quite unique of Germany and also because German peace terms would have been way less harsh on france than they were in the versailles treaty on Germany.

              also, France did not have the racial theories deep into it's population and did not have the manpower nor ambitions (and another defeat will pout an end to france's grandeur ambitions pushiung it down to european 2nd rate powers like spain or italy).

              I'd see the 20th century known as the "century of peace".
              "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                Interesting idea. The Frenchmen who thirsted for revenge over 1871 and plotted the return of Alsace & Lorraine were fairly fanatical and give a clue how tha sort of thisng could develop in French politics. France had a strong conservative streak in its population and facisit ideas were popular amoung some from the 1920s. Anti Semitism was a significant factor in France from Medival times, and still was in the 1930s. So, it is not impossible a 'new Napoleon' or other sort of charismatic leader could create a facist and militant party.

                So? De Gualle leading a powerfull mechanized army in a lighting attack to encirclle the Ruhr and collapse the fusty old 1914 sytle German army? France Allied with japan to dismatle the empires of Russian and Britian who had deserted France in its hour of need? I sense a Alt History book in the mists here.

                The germans were and are a very modern army, a revitalized france and a slightly weaked germany with a logical leadership would be a very good fight. It would look kinda like the book "Red Storm Rising" instead of the whole turtle dove al civil war mega series.

                what about russia, war or not, the czars regime was at the end of the road.

                I would say there would be some kinda of socialist government, now not the bolsheviks, but a theres a good chance that could happen.

                But thing of this, german victory, no collapse military collapse of austria hungray, no Marshal Piltrusiki, no miracle on the Visula

                On that vein, we could have socialist revolutions in Austria hungary a decade or so after russia

                With a mostly socialist eastern europe and hostile western allies, germany would be in a 'oh sheiz' position.

                With all this going on, we have the stage set for world war 2.5-3 between democracy and capitalism in the mid 1940's to the early 60's

                Which side develops nukes depends on what the U.S. industrial base does and were the german scientists go

                Once we get nukes, well the war will end immeditaly or will go on for a year or so and have a lot more dead and some glowing people

                Then, who knows



                Lt. Ace General

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                  Not free, but significantly discounted:

                  http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...52#post1052152

                  Post at their home site as to whether it works on a mac or check specs.

                  Best,

                  GS
                  Dear General Staff ; I am completely out of subject, did you know that general de Gaulle had Irish ancestors the MacCartan
                  à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

                  Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
                  (The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard

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                  • #24
                    Yes, one can tell by the way he walked. A sort of Gallic De Valera. Stubborn too.
                    Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                    (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                      Yes, one can tell by the way he walked. A sort of Gallic De Valera. Stubborn too.
                      not stubborn strong will I would say


                      do you think it's because his origin,that he didn't really like the English?
                      Last edited by PGT Beauregard; 17 Dec 08, 15:16.
                      à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

                      Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
                      (The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard

                      Comment

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