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WI: The Holocaust had been more like Soviet Gulag system (for an AH story)

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  • WI: The Holocaust had been more like Soviet Gulag system (for an AH story)

    OK, first let me say I am NOT trying to deny the Holocaust, that's pointless and stupid. You guys might remember that alternate WWII story I've been slowly outlining here. That's what this is for. In my story, Hitler has better advisers and understanding of wartime economy, so rather than waste resources killing people outright, he decides to work them to death without pity or malice while still at war, with plans to slaughter them outright when victory is secure.

    To that end, the great camps of our world exist, but without the large scale gas chambers. Instead Jews and other "undesirables" who can work are worked ruthlessly until they starve, die of disease or drop dead. Infants, the mentally retarded and other incapable of working would, I would think, be unceremoniously slaughtered, but all to the end of helping the German war machine as much as possible. Hitler is evil, but less crazy and more ruthless in this alternate universe.

    Now, I want to make this clear: I do not deny the gas chambers in OTL, nor do I condone the method outlined above, but it is a WWII story, and the Holocaust is very important to that story.

    So then I have to ask myself the following questions:
    1. How many lives would still be lost in this alternate Holocaust?
    I'm guessing far less than ours, but still grievous.
    2. How would the Holocaust be remembered after the war?
    I'm guessing there would be less focus on the Jews and more focus on the mentally and physically disabled. Gypsies and Homosexuals would still get the shaft because up until recently it was very much OK to despise them.
    3. Most importantly, would this slaughter be enough to convince the German military to coup the Nazis when faced with undeniable evidence of it? I mean Einsatzgruppen shooting are bad, but I figure deathcamps or GULAGS are signifigantly worse.
    I'd like to say yes, but human beings have disappointed me before.

    If this needs to be moved to History, fine. If this is inappropriate for the forum, then take it down. But I ask so I can make a better story that someday (hopefully ) you can enjoy.

    Thanks in advance.
    How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
    275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

  • #2
    well. the holocaust was really the creation of Hitler + the nazi doctrine.

    cut either and you have no reason to go as hard on the jews.
    but one question is important - which jews are targeted. german ones or all the ones of conquerred nations? if the german regime is less violent in this regard as in reality, would it have the willingness to "cleanse" (I'm using Hitler's words) the conquerred countries. what also abou the SS einsatzgruppen in the East that killed hundred of thousands by their own initiative, would these still have been created by Himmler?

    Ian Kershaw asks these same questions in his book "fatefull decisions".
    "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Wolery View Post
      In my story, Hitler has better advisers and understanding of wartime economy, so rather than waste resources killing people outright, he decides to work them to death without pity or malice while still at war, with plans to slaughter them outright when victory is secure..
      That is EXACTLY what the Nazi's did. The worked to death the people they thought they could get work out of and murdered the rest. Most of the concentration camps were work camps.

      There is a section in Wages of Destruction by Tooze that discusses the economics of the Holocaust. You should read that book.

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