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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Purist View Post
    The allies have a better rail net than would any German force coming the other way.
    When I studied this scenario early in the year it appeared it would take the Germans longer to move a 100,000 ton unit of ammunition from Prague to Bagdad via rail and barge, than it would take the British to send the same ammount via ship to Basra via the Cape. There were a lot of bottlenecks along the way, particularly in Turkey. That did not account for any British effort to interdict the transportation route.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
      The allies have a better rail net than would any German force coming the other way. As has been noted the only way for Germany to invade Turkey would be to abandon Barbarossa and Hitler would never have done that.
      Yeah, but then again this is a what if. What if Hitler felt that taking Turkey and/or defeating the Allies in the Middle East would have been more beneficial in the long run?

      Malta had very little impact on axis shipping to Africa (its role in sinking merchantmen and interdicting supplies has been shown to be greatly over emphasised) and the Royal Navy could only manage to operate a small submarine force from the island. German and Italian air attacks made stationing surface ships there too costly and they were withdrawn. The problem for the axis was the small ports and lack of transport vehicles. The ports themselves were fairly teaming with supplies but they could not be moved forwards.
      It would have been interesting to see the Axis eliminate Malta early though, just to keep it from being a nuisance and a propoganda piece.

      And I agree. The Axis' big problem in the Med was the lack of large numbers of suitable transports. But with Malta siezed by the Axis, it would have helped their forces in North Africa a small bit. Not a game winner, but it should have had a positive effect notheless.

      Turkey had no intentions of joining the axis (that too is a myth) nor were the Turks too keen on re-establishing the Ottoman Empire with all its problems.
      Turkey was very isolationist at this period. There were some undercurrents of Pan-Turkism within Turkey, but not amongst the leadership during the war. Turkey might have joined the Axis if the Soviet Union were near collapse and the Germans were victorious in the Middle East (hoping to join the winning side before it was too late), but even this is very unlikely.

      Further, you may wish to re-examine Germany's racial policies again. While a few Muslim units were raised for propaganda value, Nazi Germany would have never countenanced raising a plethora of religious units. Besides, being an atheist ideology I'm sure how much support the Muslim world would given the Germans if the opportunity had arisen.
      It depends on the region, not the specific religion. Muslims and Christians in Yugoslavia had a history of ethnic strife and warfare, and Muslims who collaborated with Germany did so in an attempt to protect and/or advance their own interests in heterogenous areas of the world. But Turkey was mostly Muslim, and mostly the same ethnicity. There were enclaves of others, but nothing like Yugoslavia's volatile mix.

      The Turks would not be enticed en mass to the German side. I imagine it would be alot like to occupation of Western Europe: you might raise a few small units from right-wing groups and very outspoken Anti-Communists, but most Turkish people would be un-supportive of their new Nazi rulers. Turkey had a strong sense of nationalism at this time too, so overcoming that would be difficult, especially combined with the terrain of Turkey which is highly favorable to partisan warfare.

      So Germany could get a unit or two of Turkish SS soldiers, and maybe a number of local units to act as police/anti-insurgent troops (of dubious quality and loyalty), but the Germans ranks would not be swelled with Turkish soldiers if Germany had to invade.

      That being said, the Germans might have been able to raise a regiment or two of Kurds into the Waffen-SS if they game them their own country. But this would not be a large influx of soldiers.

      After all, even the Iraqi revolt was more political than religious and it is questionable that the Muslim leadership would have been willing to exchange being occupied by Christian France and Britain for a white supremacist and atheist Nazi Germany.
      The "religion" of the Nazi government was a strange mix of Christianity, Athiesm, and Pagan Voodoo nonsense.

      That aside, I think it would tie more into nationalism than anything when considering Turkey. Turkey had fought a civil war (1919-1923) and a war against the Greeks (1919-1922), and was loathe to submit to the European powers again or see their territory diced up.

      Since the odds of Turkey joining willingly are low, any German invasion of Turkey would not only ensure that most Turks would not work willingly with the German occupiers, but it could also alienate the Muslim world as the Arabs look at how Germany treats occupied territory.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by daemonofdecay View Post
        Since the odds of Turkey joining willingly are low, any German invasion of Turkey would not only ensure that most Turks would not work willingly with the German occupiers, but it could also alienate the Muslim world as the Arabs look at how Germany treats occupied territory.
        Fertile ground then for both the British SOE/SAS and the Soviet equivalent. Turkish SS and German sponsored police will be kept busy guarding the ports and railroad along the LoC.

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