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  • Germany wins the Battle of Britain

    Today in English, we were assinged a project in which we will have to research and answer three historical "what if" questions. I recieved my first question today, and it was "what if germany won the battle of britain in 1940".

    My inital thoght is that the Germans would have launched their planned Operation Sea Lion. The British would have probably resisted to the last, but with German air superiorty I think that the German Panzers would prevail eventually.

    With the British defeated Hitler would basically be the master of Western Europe, with only a few Partisan bands to harass him. With German attention focused on the invasion of England, Barbarossa probably would not have been launched in 1941, or before 1942 for that matter. One of the main reasons for hitler attacking the Russians was to demoralize and weaken the British.

    Hitler would have control of the middle east oil fields, and the rest of the british empire. Even if the U.S. wanted to join the war, they would have no staging area to launch a invasion, and would probably just make peace with Hitler in the interim.

    So, basically hitler comes out on top and basically world war II ends early, that is until hitler finally decides it is time to expand into the east, and that is when things could turn agianst him.

    Any thoughts, on this assesment? I am still researching this and may change my opinion.

  • #2
    I think you pretty much got it. I would have said the same thing. Others may have different opinions.
    "The U.S. has broken the second rule of war. That is don't go fighting with your land army on the mainland of Asia. Rule One is don't march on Moscow. I developed these two rules myself." - Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery referring to the Vietnam War

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    • #3
      IMHO I doubt that Hitler would get the Middle Eastern oil fields if he defeated Britain. The British government would have gone into exile probably in Canada and continued the war from there.
      As for your belief that the U.S. had no staging areas to attack Germany we (the U.S.) had taken control of Iceland. It is further then we might have liked but close enough to launch an invasion of the UK. Also once the U.S. got into the war we could have isolated the German forces in Britain.
      FDR, and Churchill had agreed that Germany would be the first country we would concentrate on. We were able to attack both Germany and Japan because the war in Europe was primarily a land war while the Pacific was a naval war. If the need for the navy had been there we would have concentrated it in the Atlantic.
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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      • #4
        Even if Britain was defeated, it does not seem likely that Germany and the U.S. would remain at peace.

        Assuming Britain was defeated, the Japanese would still have attacked Pearl Harbor. Since Germany and Japan were allies, the Japanese would probably be pushing Germany to declare war on the United States. During the war, Hitler declared was on the U.S. even when he was still fighting Britain and Russia. Assuming that he defeated Britain, he most likely would not hesitate to declare war on the United States.

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        • #5
          Re: Germany wins the Battle of Britain

          Originally posted by Panzer Leader
          One of the main reasons for hitler attacking the Russians was to demoralize and weaken the British.
          Sorry, I disagree with a lot of what you've said here, but I REALLY must take issue with this one.

          Russia WAS the war as far as Hitler was concerned - as I've said elsewhere, at length, everything else was just a sideshow. By the end of the Battle of Britain, Hitler had lost interest in England - he wanted the big prize, and Russia was his goal all along. Suggesting that he attacked Russia just to annoy the British is just plain wrong.

          Dr. S.
          Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

          www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

          www.tabletown.co.uk

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          • #6
            To me, I think by 1940, if Great Britain fell, the United States would have joined the war. It may have not been that visible on the surface, but we were already heavily involved with the Brits. I don't think Hitler would have stood aside anyway and not declared war on the US once he realized all the aid the British were getting from us. An invasion of England would have turned into a very bloody affair for both sides. As for the rest of the Empire, the gouvernment would have been able to control the rest of the colonies and communicate with them at some level or another. I think Hitler would have had to directly attack the middle eastern oil fields in order to gain control of them. I think it is also a possibility that Stalin may have tried to get a hold of them as well. The worst of it outside the British Isles would be the morale problem.
            Pvt. Bob Mana,
            Co. B, 3rd Maryland Vol. Infantry, 1st Brigade, 1st Division, 12th Corps, Union Army of the Potomac

            For the Union

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            • #7
              Winning the Battle of Britain would still have left Germany a LONG distance from being able to actually invade England with any hope of success.

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              • #8
                Germany almost won...

                Hello all,

                Between the U-Boat war and the Battle of Britain, Germany came as close as they ever did beating Britain.
                However, I still remember that the whole reason for the Battle of Britain is that Goering convinced Hitler that the Luftwaffe could destroy the RAF prior to the invasion.

                I don't think Germany could have conquered England, I think the
                Canadians and Americans could have sent expeditonary forces into England to prevent it's fall. I think it would have delayed the end of the war by a year or so...

                It's an interesting what if though...

                Dark_Hercule
                You can never have too much reconnaissance--Gen. G.S. Patton, Jr.

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                • #9
                  Re: Germany almost won...

                  Originally posted by Dark_Hercule

                  I don't think Germany could have conquered England, I think the
                  Canadians and Americans could have sent expeditonary forces into England to prevent it's fall. I think it would have delayed the end of the war by a year or so...

                  It's an interesting what if though...

                  Dark_Hercule
                  I agree with this statement. I don't believe for one instant that the US and the rest of the Commonwealth countries would have left Great-Britain fall. If anything else, if Germany would have "won" the battle of Britain, the ME109s instead of fighting Spits, would have been fighting Commonwealth SPits and Hurricanes and US warplanes. I am still not overly convinced that even if the RAF would have been destroyed, that Germany had enough transports to carry the needed infantry and panzer divisions across the Channel. And let's not forget about the Royal navy, she was still alive and able and I am positive that she would have sailed for Canada if Britain would have been on the verge of falling. Hence, Germany winning the battle of Britain, would have precipitated the entry into the War of the US.
                  http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

                  Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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                  • #10
                    Even if the RAF had been defeated the Germans could NEVER have landed significant numbers in England. Remember, there was no Chunnel in 1940.
                    Lance W.

                    Peace through superior firepower.

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                    • #11
                      Although I believe that one was started, but never completed, in the Napoleonic times? It was certainly discussed anyway.

                      Dr. S.
                      Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

                      www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

                      www.tabletown.co.uk

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                      • #12
                        The Germans apparently didn't know anything about how to conduct proper Amphibous operations judging by lack of equipment and very few if any prior operations other than possibly river crossings. Crossing rivers is one thing. The English Channel is one big river! Sure you might want to go to Pais De Calais but still thats alot of water to cross and the Brits would know that area anyway as a likely point.

                        In Crete the German Amphibious force didn't land because I think I t got chopped up by the Royal Navy, leaving the Paratroopers on their own to take the island, with high casualties. Quite obviously the Germans would not be able to use this option for Britain as there was not and never will be (in anyone's case, past, present and future) enough men, equipment and especially transports to deliver and support an invasion entirely from the air, and anyway in Hitler's mind the traditional Paratroop concept was finished as a result of Crete.
                        "To know the weapons the enemy has is already to beat them!"

                        http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-photo-vf213-01l.jpg

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                        • #13
                          I am not so sure. Manstein in his book 'Lost Victories' states that
                          he was certain at the time....that the first wave WOULD get ashore, fairly unmolested. He came to this conclusion by examining how fast a British destroyer can move abd where
                          air Recon showed him they were.

                          It was supply and subsequent reinforcements that he had no faith
                          in getting.

                          But.....

                          Assuming that a lodgement was made, you all overlook the political aspect. Not everyone in England is Winston Churchill.
                          If a German lodgement was made, alot of people would begin
                          to see an unhappy outlook/ending for the war.

                          The harder they fight, the harsher the peace. There would be a great temptation to make a deal.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Germany wins the Battle of Britain

                            Originally posted by Panzer Leader
                            Today in English, we were assinged a project in which we will have to research and answer three historical "what if" questions. I recieved my first question today, and it was "what if germany won the battle of britain in 1940".

                            My inital thoght is that the Germans would have launched their planned Operation Sea Lion. The British would have probably resisted to the last, but with German air superiorty I think that the German Panzers would prevail eventually.

                            With the British defeated Hitler would basically be the master of Western Europe, with only a few Partisan bands to harass him. With German attention focused on the invasion of England, Barbarossa probably would not have been launched in 1941, or before 1942 for that matter. One of the main reasons for hitler attacking the Russians was to demoralize and weaken the British.

                            Hitler would have control of the middle east oil fields, and the rest of the british empire. Even if the U.S. wanted to join the war, they would have no staging area to launch a invasion, and would probably just make peace with Hitler in the interim.

                            So, basically hitler comes out on top and basically world war II ends early, that is until hitler finally decides it is time to expand into the east, and that is when things could turn agianst him.

                            Any thoughts, on this assesment? I am still researching this and may change my opinion.
                            No, even if Germany had won the Battle of Britain, there would still have been remaining RAF. In addition, the Germans had no landing craft, no amphibious doctrine, no officers with any knowledge of amphibious doctrine and operations. In addition, the British Navy would have crushed any attempted landing in the narrow confines of the English Channel. For Hitler, it would be a stinging defeat - thousands of soldiers, several warships, and some aircraft, not to mention his first defeat and a monumental one at that. Though unlikely, such a defeat could have provoked a coup. What would happen thereafter is anybody's guess
                            Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                            (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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