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An Allied Victory Still Possible?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by PatBC View Post
    Likely the later half but certianly by the end of the war. At the end of the war Canada had over 400 ships invloved in escort duty in the north Atlantic including 68 Frigates, and 112 covettes. Thousands of Canadian were serving in RN ships mostly also on escort duty in the atlantic.

    some info is from

    http://www.junobeach.org/e/4/can-tac-shp-e.htm

    the rest I am not sure where I read it.
    It's that 'two-thirds' figure that interests me. I've scoured the net (a bit) and can't confirm or deny it.

    I thought this was nice

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/package...ic/can3942.htm when it concludes

    "Without the Royal Canadian Navy, the Battle of the Atlantic could not have been won."

    which is arguable but it's still a fine tribute to the RCN.
    Signing out.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Roadkiller View Post
      To answer FM's question with more specific informaion (I will endevour to track down exact data as well):
      I've just been reading that but thanks for taking the time to post it.
      Signing out.

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      • #33
        I think that overall that Germany was still screwed as soon as they failed to knock Britain out of the war in 1940. Economically, the combined output of Germany and occupied Europe could not match the British Empire once it got fully geared up. Germany's one hope would have been to knock out the USSR in 1941 and occupied the whole of Ukraine as well as the oilfields. If this had occurred then Germany might have simply been able to force Britain into a stalemate. It would then have the food and oil necessary to supply itself despite being cut off from the rest of the world by the British navy. However, once the USSR managed to halt the German offensive in winter of 1941 it was essentially all over for Germany. Germany never recovered from 1941, although its campaign in the south in 1942 was spectacular, note that it was only in the south they launched an offensive, because they only had the economic strength to resupply one of the Russian fronts for an offensive and chose the south, as opposed to the north or the centre. Basically, in 1941, Germany was able to launch an all-out general offensive, in 1942 it was able to launch an offensive in one sector (the south), and in 1943 it could only launch localized attacks (Kursk). What would have happened was that the whole of Europe probably would have been occupied by the USSR, or the Brits would have been lucky to get Italy or France. May I suggest anyone interested in the subject look at Adam Tooze's spectacular analysis of the German war economy, entitled, the Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy. It basically shows, how by 1940 Germany would need a miracle to win the war, even after the fall of France, and how by 1941 defeat was inevitable. And only through the introduction of slave labour and the administrative genius of Albert Speer and a refusal to surrender did the war effort keep going.
        There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full. -Henry Kissinger

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        • #34
          OK FM, I guess you can use Google as well as I can

          The Maritime Command Museum is here, they may be able to answer questions and they have links to other RCN related sites: http://users.pspmembers.com/marcommuseum/index.html

          The official history of the RCN is in two volumes: No Higher Purpose, and A Blue Water Navy. (I'm ashamed to say I have read neither).
          Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

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          • #35
            no america, well that leaves the job to the rest of the allies, focus needs to be put on that i feel, and what the axis have to do to accomplish victory.

            Due to geograhy, there is little GB can do about Japan directly, our navy is largly devoted to europe, in the real deal we did help a great deal in trimming the japs, but with no american ships escorting anything, that would be reduced greatly, even to nil.

            Japans regional enemies need to be looked at, Australia, China, NZ, indochina, the sub continent etc, Japan is on its own, do these nations have what it takes to turn the tide.

            Europe i feel is the more sure thing, sandwiched between us and russia, germany and italy would fall in the end, how and in what circumstances is open to conjecture, but once the tide is turned, i suspect winnie, and know joe would aim for complete victory.

            Japan is the tougher nut, no atom bomb to get the job done, i feel that to be the crux, germany is very beatable, but the fight to the last man japs are a different matter.
            Sealion would have failed..............runs,

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            • #36
              The British likely would have gotten the bomb also, just later.

              The important thing to remember that the population of the Commonwealth alone out numbered the all the Axis nations combined. There is no real reason that the Raj army could not have been made bigger, in a longer war it likely would have been.
              FoxNEWS "The World is unfair and we are running scared"

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Roadkiller View Post
                OK FM, I guess you can use Google as well as I can

                The Maritime Command Museum is here, they may be able to answer questions and they have links to other RCN related sites: http://users.pspmembers.com/marcommuseum/index.html

                The official history of the RCN is in two volumes: No Higher Purpose, and A Blue Water Navy. (I'm ashamed to say I have read neither).
                Thanks for that. I haven't read official histories in full for any UK armed service in any war.
                Signing out.

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