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What if America did not enter WW2?

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  • What if America did not enter WW2?

    Did not see this thread around in here so...

    Let's say Japan never bomber America on Dec. 7th and in return America remained in isolation mode. What could we have expected to see on all fronts from Dec. 7th and on. This includes both E.T.O and P.T.O
    If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

    There never was a good war or a bad peace.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lonewulf View Post
    Let's say Japan never bomber America on Dec. 7th and in return America remained in isolation mode.
    The Americans were NOT in isolation mode in 1941. The USN was escorting convoys 1/2 way across the atlantic and the USMC had garrisoned Iceland.

    Add in the Lend-Lease and Cash& Carry programs as well as the massive expansion of the USN and US army, it is pretty clear that the US had picked sides.

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    • #3
      so many possibilities in that case.

      in the pacific, it is Japan's strategic move... will it then never attack? what will it do then? go against the USSR (and get it's armies crushed fast) ? would it go against the NEI and British possessions (and cause US opinion to be even more against it - and I do see in this case the USA dow on japan sometime in 1942 and nuking japan by 1945-1946

      in europe, no change, really, as 80% of the job was sone by the USSR anyways, with help of US supplies (who started well before dec 7th 41)... so you still have US materiel and supplies (and money) helping UK and the USSR... (the USA would not look down upon that revenue).

      but it would in all cases mean a lot morally after ww2. it would mean that the USA would not be on the moral high ground and it's culture would not spread as easily in europe and in the world. you'd probably see a very pro-british and pro-soviet opinions in the world (and in the USA) with a much higher level of socialism and even communism across europe and the americas and Asia.

      I'd bet for no cold war then as the US millitary would not be seen as threatening by Stalin and he could relax a bit - still getting many more countries to join the soviet sphere - i.e. Greece, Italy, France for sure, and possibly others....
      "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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      • #4
        as long as the raw materials kept coming, the outcome of the war was assured, i reckon in asia the problems would have been greater.

        Though japan had raw materials problems of its own,

        I reckon a greater peril would be what the outcome could have been if the US didnt supply anyone.
        Sealion would have failed..............runs,

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
          but it would in all cases mean a lot morally after ww2. it would mean that the USA would not be on the moral high ground and it's culture would not spread as easily in europe and in the world. you'd probably see a very pro-british and pro-soviet opinions in the world (and in the USA) with a much higher level of socialism and even communism across europe and the americas and Asia.
          Am I to understand by what you are saying is that Germany would still have lost the war?
          If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

          There never was a good war or a bad peace.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
            The Americans were NOT in isolation mode in 1941. The USN was escorting convoys 1/2 way across the atlantic and the USMC had garrisoned Iceland.

            Add in the Lend-Lease and Cash& Carry programs as well as the massive expansion of the USN and US army, it is pretty clear that the US had picked sides.
            America would not have declared war on the Axis short of a land invasion of England or if one of the Axis powers attacked us. America was happy to continue to make money and preserve American life as a Allied Belligerent!
            If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

            There never was a good war or a bad peace.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lonewulf View Post
              America would not have declared war on the Axis short of a land invasion of England or if one of the Axis powers attacked us. America was happy to continue to make money and preserve American life as a Allied Belligerent!
              I reckon that was enough to get the job done, once the initial shocks had faded, where germany was concerned, they had so little room to maneuver, they had failed over the skies of britain and getting to regret going east by the time of pearl harbour, and the cream of german military as fine soldiers as they were, were being killed fast, as were the best pilots.
              Men that just couldnt be replaced, its like losing a challenger 2 tank to relace it with a chariot.

              Russia had limitless numbers, and we were in control of the seas and fast learning to deal with the u boat menace, also africa was on the cards,

              With no american military, germany was still set to get its nuts cooked over time, the aftermath of which was painted very well earlier in the thread.

              I reckon japan was at full stretch too, not a lot more in the tank with regard to conquests they could make net benifits, china again had limitless numbers to throw, and although not great tech wise the empire had a lot it could do, and raw materials japan could only dream of, via the sub continent.

              The axis i feel was doomed by bigger eyes than stomachs from the outset, just a matter of time.
              Sealion would have failed..............runs,

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, but what if the point of divergence was in like in the early 30's if FDR got capped. And you got a very strong isolationist preisdent like FDRs first VP (look him up) and congress.

                No lend lease, no convoys. And what if the americans instead of just giving stuff to the allies, they shut out exports to belligerent nations or sold recourses to both sides?


                Sgt. Ace_General

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ace_General View Post
                  Yeah, but what if the point of divergence was in like in the early 30's if FDR got capped. And you got a very strong isolationist preisdent like FDRs first VP (look him up) and congress.

                  No lend lease, no convoys. And what if the americans instead of just giving stuff to the allies, they shut out exports to belligerent nations or sold recourses to both sides?


                  Sgt. Ace_General
                  Good Point!
                  If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

                  There never was a good war or a bad peace.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ace_General View Post
                    Yeah, but what if the point of divergence was in like in the early 30's if FDR got capped. And you got a very strong isolationist preisdent like FDRs first VP (look him up) and congress.

                    No lend lease, no convoys. And what if the americans instead of just giving stuff to the allies, they shut out exports to belligerent nations or sold recourses to both sides?


                    Sgt. Ace_General
                    exactly. once the USA started to support UK and russia, and that the war became total in 1941, I think the axis was doomed.
                    "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ace_General View Post
                      Yeah, but what if the point of divergence was in like in the early 30's if FDR got capped. And you got a very strong isolationist preisdent like FDRs first VP (look him up) and congress.

                      No lend lease, no convoys. And what if the americans instead of just giving stuff to the allies, they shut out exports to belligerent nations or sold recourses to both sides?


                      Sgt. Ace_General
                      Yes all that could have been possible but thank God it did not happen, particularly the selling to both sides.
                      'By Horse by Tram'.


                      I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                      " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                      • #12
                        Yes it all becomes a tougher call, thank whoever we all did the right thing, i mean we could have refused to honour our pact with poland etc
                        Sealion would have failed..............runs,

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by UGLYGUTS View Post
                          Yes it all becomes a tougher call, thank whoever we all did the right thing, i mean we could have refused to honour our pact with poland etc
                          Indeed, the world could have been a much different place to live in.
                          If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

                          There never was a good war or a bad peace.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Britian had a atomic weapons project underway long before the US joined the war. I wonder how long it would have taken Britian alone to figure out how to build atomic bombs and refine the Canadian Uranium into weapons grade isotpes? 1946? ... 1948?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                              Britian had a atomic weapons project underway long before the US joined the war. I wonder how long it would have taken Britian alone to figure out how to build atomic bombs and refine the Canadian Uranium into weapons grade isotpes? 1946? ... 1948?

                              i always big up my country even when the facts tell otherwise, but on this i reckon we had no chance, if you look at the resources, man power, and facilities america poured into the project, plus the fact bombs were not raining down.

                              I think while still at war, neither us or the german had much more than a pipe dream of getting this done.

                              perhaps if we had delegated this task to canada and sent as much help as we could, then maybe, but on these islands or in germany i dont think either had a realistic chance.
                              Sealion would have failed..............runs,

                              Comment

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