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  • bomb on berlin

    what if the war had lasted longer and the allies dropped atomic bombs on germany?
    Sail on Britannia.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sawman0311 View Post
    what if the war had lasted longer and the allies dropped atomic bombs on germany?
    That possobility will only bring on the same arguments for and against as the atom bombs on Japan!!
    'By Horse by Tram'.


    I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
    " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by sawman0311 View Post
      what if the war had lasted longer and the allies dropped atomic bombs on germany?
      While I agree with lcm1 I would add that using a weapon of that destructive power on Western Europeans would have been far more controversial than doing so on Oriental Japanese. Look at the debates (both here and elsewhere) on the morality of firebombing Dresden compared with the relative silence over far more devastating raids carried out on Japanese cities.
      Signing out.

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      • #4
        I didn't come up with this , im not a sadist. i've been reading d-day by stephen ambrose and he says thats what would have happened. I just wanted to know other peoples thoughts on it.
        Sail on Britannia.

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        • #5
          I think in reality these are the tough questions asked, you are asking what if we decimated hundreds of thousands of people at once in a single bomb or do the same thing gradually over time like "Dresden". Of course without the radiation.

          Examples of what using a WMD like that during WW2 against the Axis could cause:

          1) NO the Allies would not have nuked the Germans during '45 as the Germans were at the brink of defeat, something like that could have encouraged the Germans to fight to the death causing more human loss of life.

          2)However with the Japanese it was a bit different, the Japanese were at the time not soundly beaten, they could have put up a much more fanatical defense, especially if the Allies were to invade Japan. Allied and Japanese loss of life would have been monumentally larger then that of the 2 bombs dropped on Japan.

          A Nuke is a weapon, a very awful weapon but a weapon nonetheless, we are fortunate that no one has decided to use them again.
          If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

          There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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          • #6
            A bomb on Germany was very plausible if war in europe had lasted beyond August 1st 1945 for any reason (delay in d-day, more me-262, no Kursk or any german better tactical handling of the war...).

            now of course the exact situation of that what if would dictate where the bomb would be dropped and - perhaps crucially - where is the Red Army at this time. near Berlin, in Berlin (and Germany fights from the Ruhr..), on the Rhine??? in all cases the future of europe was already decided in Yalta, so the Red Army would probably not go much more west - but if so, it would pillage lots more secrets, industry and intelligence people before retreating to the decided frontier.

            and finally would a bomb be enough to make germany capitulate . not if the bomb fails to kill Hitler, but even if so, how long would the new Fuhrer(s) negotiate or fight to the death, etc. hard to say.
            "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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            • #7
              I would imagine the bomb only being used if the soviet army was delayed on its way to berlin. If it was say, 20 miles away, the dropping of the bomb could be seen as a stop to the soviet advance westwards, as at the point the bomb was ready, there was disputes about the future map of europe.
              Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we may become.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by sawman0311 View Post
                I didn't come up with this , im not a sadist. i've been reading d-day by stephen ambrose and he says thats what would have happened. I just wanted to know other peoples thoughts on it.
                I do very much doubt that such a thing would have happened on Germany,there would have been many more things to consider with an Atom bomb on Europe in comparison with the bombing of the ISLAND of Japan.
                'By Horse by Tram'.


                I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                • #9
                  Let me throw a couple of things into the bag:

                  Would it have actually been Berlin? Would not another city or a field army be another choice for the target?

                  Also, if the Soviet decided to keep going after Berlin, would the A-Bomb be a choice to use at that time?
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                    Let me throw a couple of things into the bag:

                    Would it have actually been Berlin? Would not another city or a field army be another choice for the target?

                    Also, if the Soviet decided to keep going after Berlin, would the A-Bomb be a choice to use at that time?
                    There would have been several targets. There were three available in August 1945. That is a third was ready for use that month. There is a some debate over how many more would have been available. For the moment I belive there was enough material available to construct five more by the end of the year. So, this would not need be a single unique event, but rather a series, until the nazis give in...

                    Were I picking targets those more directly usefull to the US Army would be the first thought. Berlin is likely to be far away and not of imeadiate aid to Devers and Bradleys advance. So, something closer to the home team.

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                    • #11
                      in hindsight moscow would have been a good choice.
                      Sealion would have failed..............runs,

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by UGLYGUTS View Post
                        in hindsight moscow would have been a good choice.
                        Not a critical tipping point for Germany in 1945

                        I took a quick look at the anti transportation campaign by the Allied airforces in the late winter and early spring of 1945. Nearly the same paralysis might have been accomplished by dropping two or three atomic bombs on key railroad centers serving the western front. destroying a couple such hubs in a day or two, & in combination with the conventional air attacks, would back up and stall rail traffic all across Germany for a week or more. Timed to take advantage of a ground attack and with the accompanying morale loss in the German high command this could result in a distigration of the defenses similar to the collapse in Normandy at the begaining of August 1944, or in Italy in June 1944, or at several points on the Eastern Front. The difference would be the psychologocal and physical collapse would be accomplished in a few days vs the months required with conventional means.

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                        • #13
                          It really does depend on the progress of the war doesn't it. If the Germans had managed to create an apparently impregnable fortress around their borders (or worse, if Overlord had failed and the Red Army had bogged down in Eastern Poland) that would have cost potentially hundreds of thousands of Allied soldier's lives to crack then I would expect that the Bomb would have been used. However, once its power had been revealed at the testing ground its use in a tactical role, with Allied soldiers on the ground relatively nearby, would have been unthinkable. Its use at Hiroshima, and then Nagasaki, was purely strategic - intended to shake the Japanese political hierarchy out of its belief that it could still get something out of the war and, in the process, save the lives of thousands of Allied servicemen.
                          Signing out.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by UGLYGUTS View Post
                            in hindsight moscow would have been a good choice.
                            Its considered impolite to bomb your Allies

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                              It really does depend on the progress of the war doesn't it.
                              This is interesting for a few reason, had the battle of bulge turned out differently, wasn't it possible that the Allies could have been forced to sign a peace treaty as the bomb wasn't ready yet. I am still not so sure we would have dropped an A-Bomb on European soil no matter what, at least against the Germans at the time anyway.

                              Separate peace to include: Liberation of France (Alsace-Lorraine remains in German hands though), Puppet regimes in the Low Countries. Most likely Denmark straight annexed and possibly a puppet government in Norway. The war in the East however continues. Sorry Poland. No Nuke needed on Germany then.

                              There are many other thoughts. Had Normandy failed, I doubt we would use a bomb there either as it would not really change the Germans attitude at the time I don't think. Some things to think about.
                              If you sacrifice freedom to obtain some security, you deserve neither and will gain none.

                              There never was a good war or a bad peace.

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