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What if Hitler had never led Nazi Germany?

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  • What if Hitler had never led Nazi Germany?

    What would have happened if Hitler had never ended up as the leader of the Nazis? Maybe he had died in prison, or been hit by a car as he was leaving it in 1924. Would the Nazis never gain control of Germany? Would someone else rise to fill the hole created by Hitler's absence?

    How would the lack of a warring Germany affect the rest of Europe? Maybe the Soviet Union would invade. Germany, France, England, and Italy would ally themselves against them. Japan might not attack Pearl Harbor with the Russians (once again) knocking at their door. The U.S. might not get involved when we did. Hey, maybe we would have diverted more resources to the Manhatten Project and gotten the A-bomb earlier, maybe ever 1943.

    So, what do you guys think?
    "You realize that if I could actually purchase a weapon, I would stab you with it now?" --Roy, Order of the Stick #136

    Governor of South Florida, Cuba, Louisiana, Manhattan, Hawaii, Illinois, Moon and Mars. Chief of Cybernetics Div., S.INC

  • #2
    World history as we know it would be different from the 20's onward. So many variables are changed, I really can't even speculate beyond a somewhat aggressive Soviet Union and an America that stays in depression longer. I think you'd still end up with an aggressive Germany simply because of the harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty, but without the megalomania of wanting to take out the Soviets and the strong anti-Semitism (beyond that already existing at the time). There would still be a Fascist Italy, but probably not as bombastic without their much stronger German ally. America would likely stay isolationist far longer than the late 20's giving the Soviets more time and space to promote communism under Stalin.

    The only variable I don't see really changing is Japan... they still need the raw materials in Dutch, French, and British Asia and they know the US won't tolerate them controlling the Western Pacific, so eventually they still butt heads.
    If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

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    • #3
      I think there is still a serious possibility of a conflict (perhaps not on a global scale) coming out of this, regardless of whether Hitler was in power or not.

      Versailles reduced the German Army cutting their feeling of security along with it. The loss of the Navy and the Air Force also made them feel vulnerable.

      Versailles also reshaped Germany. By creating 2 Germanys, the Aliies were asking for a round 2. The Polish Corridor would have to be erased in order for Germany to regain some semblance of pride and physical reassurance. What if Poland wanted more? What about all of the poor victimized Germans living under oppressive Polish rule?

      What about the reparations? The entire German economy was geared to pay these off - not aid German society in being productive. When the Germans couldn't pay, France takes over the Ruhr.

      I do not think that war could have been avoided without a serious reworking of Versailles.
      "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
      General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

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      • #4
        Versailles also reshaped Germany. By creating 2 Germanys, the Aliies were asking for a round 2. The Polish Corridor would have to be erased in order for Germany to regain some semblance of pride and physical reassurance. What if Poland wanted more? What about all of the poor victimized Germans living under oppressive Polish rule?
        This is a good point, Since history has written in such broad terms of "good and bad" many people dont realize today that Poland was a right wing dictatorship at the time.
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        • #5
          Ya' changed your picture SGT Long....

          Poland probably never would have had agressive tendencies towards Germany - but even a perception or a hint of this to a country stripped of a military force encites fear and a desire to prevent an attack whatever way. Poland and Germany/Prussia have been fighting for centuries - a fact the Germans were not going to fight (remember Grunwald 1481).
          "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
          General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

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          • #6
            I would assume that eventually Stalin would have tried to assimilate Poland. The Poles would not be able to hold him off.

            The question then is....would the Poles ask for German help?
            Yes or no?

            If they did ask, would they get it?

            If they got the help, would France and Britain assist?

            Lotta questions.

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            • #7
              I think German demands on Poland (in return for assistance) may have been to high to ask.

              I wonder whether Britain and France would have intervened on Poland's behalf. There was limited support for Finland but perhaps appeasement would have asserted its ugly face.
              "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
              General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

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              • #8
                If Hitler didn't run Nazi Germany then some other idot would have.
                History does repeat itsself lets try and not make that happen
                Peter Williams

                "We're not lost private, we're in Normandy"-

                Lt. Richard Winters 101st 506 pir

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                • #9
                  As long as the Versailles Treaty (as written) is the instrument that ends WW I then WW II is inevitable. If the German economy is ruined by repairations some extremist will come along to unite the people against their oppressors. Hitler was just the best orator of the bunch.
                  Lance W.

                  Peace through superior firepower.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What if Hitler had never led Nazi Germany?

                    Originally posted by Bariman
                    What would have happened if Hitler had never ended up as the leader of the Nazis? Maybe he had died in prison, or been hit by a car as he was leaving it in 1924. Would the Nazis never gain control of Germany? Would someone else rise to fill the hole created by Hitler's absence?

                    How would the lack of a warring Germany affect the rest of Europe? Maybe the Soviet Union would invade. Germany, France, England, and Italy would ally themselves against them. Japan might not attack Pearl Harbor with the Russians (once again) knocking at their door. The U.S. might not get involved when we did. Hey, maybe we would have diverted more resources to the Manhatten Project and gotten the A-bomb earlier, maybe ever 1943.

                    So, what do you guys think?
                    There were a handful of charismatic orators in the Nazi Party, So they certainly could have gained supporters,a hence gained control of the Reichstag. What they did after gaining control would dictate their fortunes. Had they adopted a less radical, less racialist policy, while still attempting economic recovery and opposition to the socialists and trade unionists, they may well have gone on to quite a career. Remember, the National Socialist German Workers' Party did not begin with an anti-Semitic agenda, That came later, though before Hitler. Hitler simply took it farther, form a peripheral issue to, arguably, the Nazis' raison d'etre.
                    Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                    (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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                    • #11
                      Only Hitler could have united that group of thugs. No Hitler, no Nazi Germany, period, end of story.

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                      • #12
                        Ya' changed your picture SGT Long....
                        Yeah,Seemed like a good idea at the time. I didnt want anyone think I was SMA Preston or anything.

                        If Hitler didn't run Nazi Germany then some other idot would have.
                        The "idiot" part is debateable, The question is who would be a leader given the situation the Allied powers put Germany in after WW1.

                        Only Hitler could have united that group of thugs. No Hitler, no Nazi Germany, period, end of story.
                        Once again,debateable. A number of Nationalistic groups exsisted after WW1 that eventually came under control of the NSDAP. Who's to say another couldnt gave filled the void?
                        Delegate, MN GOP.

                        PATRIA SI, COMUNISMO NO

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                        • #13
                          Without Hitler to crystallise dissent and bring Rohm, the army and the money together nobody else in the National Socialist Workers Party was probably influential enough to make them anything more than a peripheral nuisance.

                          The Communists were the best organised, financed and lead political party and had significant support from Uncle Joe. The only reason the Nazi's were tolerated by the political establishment was to keep the Communists from taking power.

                          Without Hitler, by the late 20's and certainly the early 30's economic circumstances created by the Depression and the Treaty of Versailles would have lead to a the Communist Workers Federation of Germany.

                          France would have soon followed (French Communists only being prevented from taking power by severe repression.

                          Can you imagine how this would have shaped world events?

                          As to the comment about the Manhattan Project, the British would probably have developed it first (most of the scientists and certainly the lead in atomic technology pre war was in the UK) and then would have soon gone to the USSR (Fuchs, Burgess, McLean et al).

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                          • #14
                            The Nazis would have never have gained control of all of Germany
                            Because Hitler was the smart enough man they had to unite those group of thugs.

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                            • #15
                              Re: What if Hitler had never led Nazi Germany?

                              I think that if Hitler and the Nazi party hadn't been around Germany would have found another leader and maybe that person wouldn't have led them to war but maybe tried to stem the awful inflation and bring the country into a rebuilding stage. Also say then Germany doesn't build up the way it did and never really does, there probably wouldn't have been a world war two. Sure, perhaps the Japanese would have gotten gitty and tried to invade china and the rest of the south pacific but it would have been only a minor war not the biggest war the globe has ever seen. Also if there was no world war two America wouldnt be the superpower it is today because of a policy of isolationism.
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