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What if Hawaii had radar stations in 1941?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    I was under the impression the Japanese did not use dive bombing techniques at PH. Correct me if I am wrong here.
    Here’s what I found about the Vals:

    From Wki:
    First Wave

    • 2nd Group — (targets: Ford Island and Wheeler Field)
    o 54 Aichi D3A dive bombers armed with 550 lb (249 kg) general purpose bombs

    Second Wave

    • 2nd Group (targets: aircraft carriers and cruisers)
    o 81 D3As armed with 550 lb (249 kg) general purpose bombs, in four sections
    ...and from
    Both Hickam Field and Ford Island were hit again and dive-bombers of the second wave started to seek out targets that had survived the first wave, particularly the capital ships in the harbour.
    I couldn’t find anything that actually stated they either dive or level bombed. I’ve always just assumed they dove.


    • #77
      Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
      I was under the impression the Japanese did not use dive bombing techniques at PH. Correct me if I am wrong here.
      Also at least a portion, if not all, the bombs were converted naval gun projectiles. Selected for their armor piercing capability. In this case the explosive charge would be far less than in a common bomb of 250 or 500 kilos weight. The ability of the smaller explosive charge of a armor piercing projectile to rupture the hull of a large or medium size ship when exploding adjacent is not very great. did the Nevada suffer much damage from the near misses?
      Actually, the opposite is correct. "Dive bombing" is a difficult, precise skill to learn and one best left in the care of the more experienced aircraft carrier pilots. The Japanese utilized large calibre (IIRC, 16") shells converted into armor piercing bombs for the attack on Pearl Harbor. The more experienced, long-term pilots dive-bombed the ships along Battleship Row. The others used less precise, horizontal bombing tactics. Although, a number of them carried armor piercing bombs as well, as evidenced by what happened to the USS Arizona.

      RE: The USS Nevada. Actually she suffered serious damage from both torpedoes and bombs, but it was the torpedo hits that kept her from sortieing from Pearl Harbor.
      "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"


      • #78
        That rather answers my implied question. I had never seen a eyewitness account or historian mentioning a actual dive attack at PH.

        The converted gun projectiles ahve variously been described as 14, 15, & 16 inch caliber. I suspect none of these a right as the IJN would descirbe their projectile diameter in metrics not English measurements
        Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 06 Sep 08, 21:33.


        • #79
          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
          Was the Nevada attacked or hit while moving? Or any other ships underway during the raid specifically attacked or hit. Even at the moderate altitude they used the IJN bombers would have a lot more misses vs ships underway. Lining up a torpedo attack could be increasingly difficult. As the ships approached the navigation channel the torpedos would have to be dropped or aimed at the axis of the narrowing channel with shallow water on each side. No more broadside shots at anchored ships, with a deep harbor basin to drop into.
          All USN Admirals absolutely hated using Pearl Harbor as a main base for the US Pacific Fleet before the war. Their normal home base was at San Pedro, California. Pearl Harbor was half-way around the world from the Continental USA, with all of its vital, fleet support and supply facilities. PH had only begun serious re-organization and rebuilding efforts towards becoming a major US Fleet base by 1941. Lastly and more damning. There was only one deep water entrence into and out of the harbor.

          When President Roosevelt ordered the US Pacific Fleet to take up new and permanent residence at Pearl Harbor in 1940, in the face naked, Japanese Military aggression throughout the Orient, Pacific Fleet Admiral Richardson handed in his resignation papers. Admiral Husband Kimmel took up the challenge and was left holding the bag, when the Japanese struck on 7December, 1941.
          "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"


          • #80
            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post

            It takes a while to light the boilers in Battleships and to get enough pressure up to sail. I think the USS California was able to sail because they were having an inspection that morning and they had steam in their boilers. We were lucky this ship did not sink in the channel and block it! Destroyers and other small ships are easier.

            All of the battleships at Pearl had some amount of steam up. None were on port services so they had to have at least one or two boilers online to provide electricity and hot water aboard ship. In fact, most of the fleet was in this condition as few ships were tied to a pier where port services were available.
            For destroyers, if they were nested with a tender then the later would supply power. Otherwise, nested or not they had to have a partial plant up at a minimum.


            • #81
              Hey there T.A., good to see you made your way over here. Welcome aboard and hope you enjoy it here.

              "God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

              Billy Currington


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