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  • No Japan in WWII

    Ok, in this scenerio Japan does not join the Axis and does not attack Pearl Harbor. America possibly doesn't enter the war. What do you think happens?

    ~JDB

  • #2
    Originally posted by JDB5 View Post
    Ok, in this scenerio Japan does not join the Axis and does not attack Pearl Harbor. America possibly doesn't enter the war. What do you think happens?

    ~JDB
    FDR was going to make sure that sooner or later the US entered the war. If nothing else USN would start escort American ships to very egde of British coastal waters. Sooner or later FDR would get a either a pretext to declare war or the Germans would be provoked into declaring war in some way.
    FoxNEWS "The World is unfair and we are running scared"

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    • #3
      Worth remembering that America did not enter the war through choice, or purely because of Pearl Harbor. Hitler in a moment of true insanity declared war on the USA so to that end I guess the European theater couod well have developed as it did with the added Allied (including the USSR who had major forces in the area) benefit of no Far Eastern drain on resources.
      What would Occam say?

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      • #4
        I think eventually America enters the war regardless of what happens.

        ~JDB

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        • #5
          Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
          Worth remembering that America did not enter the war through choice, or purely because of Pearl Harbor. Hitler in a moment of true insanity declared war on the USA so to that end I guess the European theater couod well have developed as it did with the added Allied (including the USSR who had major forces in the area) benefit of no Far Eastern drain on resources.
          As long as FDR was President, Bill, the United States was going to war with Germany, and Hitler realized that!

          Roosevelt threw neutrality out the window with the Lend Lease Act, which the Republicans knew really linked American to Britain in the conflict (the Brits had already 'paid' for fifty destroyers in 1940, just not in cash).

          Then American troops occupied Iceland, freeing British troops for the Middle East. By September 1941, the US Navy was practically at war with German U-boats in the Atlantic.

          Lend lease got extended to Russia, and the restrictions on American merchant vessels carrying goods to British ports (making them valid torpedo targets ... but more usefully a cassus belli if losses happened) got removed by Congress.

          Whether you think it was for better or for worse, US isolationism died on FDR's watch!
          Last edited by clackers; 24 Jul 08, 20:04.

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          • #6
            Whether you think it was for better or for worse, US isolationism died on FDR's watch! [/QUOTE]

            Actuall,Clackers,American isolationism died on Woodrow Wilson's watch.
            If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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            • #7
              With no japan atall germany would have been toast with or without US entering, a lot of british and commonwealth forces would be freed up and heading there way, not least a good chunk of the navy.
              Sealion would have failed..............runs,

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Legate View Post

                Actuall,Clackers,American isolationism died on Woodrow Wilson's watch.
                There was 'life in the old dog' after Wilson's terms ended, Legate.

                Wilson was definitely an interventionist, but there wasn't anything lasting about his decisions.

                The 1920 election can be partly understood as a referendum on whether to continue Wilson's 'Progressive' work or not. And the Republicans' Harding, promising a return to the way things used to be, won in a record landslide.

                However, since FDR, Presidents of both parties, rightly or wrongly, have involved their country in international affairs.
                Last edited by clackers; 30 Jul 08, 19:33.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by clackers View Post
                  I do disagree, Legate. He was definitely an interventionist, but there wasn't anything lasting about his decisions.

                  The 1920 election can be partly understood as a referendum on whether to continue Wilson's 'Progressive' work or not. And the Republicans' Harding, promising a return to the way things used to be, won in a record landslide.

                  However, since FDR, Presidents of both parties, rightly or wrongly, have involved their country in international affairs.
                  You got me there,Clackers,forgot about Harding.
                  If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Longshanks View Post
                    With no japan atall germany would have been toast with or without US entering, a lot of british and commonwealth forces would be freed up and heading there way, not least a good chunk of the navy.
                    Longshanks-you do realize that Japan was not at war with Briton until dec. 7 1941? THE entire commonwealth was already at war with Germany. So the US did tip the balance
                    If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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                    • #11
                      Since you say that Japan did not enter the war I assume that you are saying that Japan wasn't trying to expand?

                      If that is what you're saying, then many Soviet troops would have been moved to the Eastern Front much sooner.

                      The entry of the U.S into the war might have been delayed, but inevitable.
                      Last edited by Fenris Hachiman; 30 Jul 08, 19:53.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fenris Hachiman View Post
                        Since you say that Japan did not enter the war I assume that you are saying that Japan wasn't trying to expand?

                        If that is what you're saying, then many Commonwealth troops would've been freed up, not only that, but Soviet troops would have been moved to the Eastern Front much sooner.
                        Of course japan was trying to expand,but the Commonwealth still has to have some troops around to protect themselves. To do so otherwise would be like letting the fox into the henhouse. Afor the USSR they would do the same.Im not sure how many troops they had in the far east,but i have to think that a huge majority of their forces were in the west.
                        If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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                        • #13
                          It would have made things a little easier for the British and Commonwealth in Europe. Plus, the economy of Malaya would be fully available for the British war effort, particularly in terms of rubber, tin and oil. We should also include the availability of Dutch East Indies resources as well, particularly in terms of oil.

                          With regards to the question of US entering a war with Germany, a good book to read is "Fateful Choices". One chapter looked at FDR's decisions during the critical months of 1940/1. In many sense, the US was already in the war, though not at war with Germany. It was already a major supplier of weapons and material to the UK. It was already engaging German U-boats in the Atlantic. The Germans understood that, which was why Hitler declared war on the US. To his mind, there already was a war.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by clackers View Post
                            As long as FDR was President, Bill, the United States was going to war with Germany, and Hitler realized that!

                            Roosevelt threw neutrality out the window with the Lend Lease Act, which the Republicans knew really linked American to Britain in the conflict (the Brits had already 'paid' for fifty destroyers in 1940, just not in cash).

                            Then American troops occupied Iceland, freeing British troops for the Middle East. By September 1941, the US Navy was practically at war with German U-boats in the Atlantic.

                            Lend lease got extended to Russia, and the restrictions on American merchant vessels carrying goods to British ports (making them valid torpedo targets ... but more usefully a cassus belli if losses happened) got removed by Congress.

                            Whether you think it was for better or for worse, US isolationism died on FDR's watch!
                            I know I am going to have a heap of so called experts on the subject come down on me like a 'Ton of bricks' but speaking as an English person that LIVED through that time, I still say that America came into the war ONLY because their arm was twisted at that period of the war any way. Whether they would have come in later is a moot point because even with Roosevelt being Pro: Brit, with his Lease Lend etc: he was still when it came down to it a business man and would have been content to sit the other side of the Atlantic make a bit of cash and see how 'the cookie crumbled'! lcm1.
                            'By Horse by Tram'.


                            I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                            " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                            • #15
                              Actually lcm1, it was the American people that had to get thier arm twisted. If fdr tried to get a dec. of war earlier he would of been laughed at. Fdr wanted to be in the war all along as they would take attention from his domestic policies.
                              If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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