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No WWII? What aspects of Nazi ideology would be acceptable today?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    *A solid work ethic, with established work brigades.
    *Per the Democrats, a socialist form of government.
    *Socialized medicine, currently heavily advocated by the Democrats.
    *Corrupt and dishonest government officials, just as we have now.
    *The State above the individual, as we have now.
    *Control of the media and thereby all information, as is currently the case in America.
    *Lying as a form of controlling the population, as currently practiced in America.
    *Strict gun control and no guns in private hands, per the current Democratic agenda and as exists in many foreign nations, "for the safety of the public", along with a major expansion of "red flag" laws.
    *Large public projects to keep the workers busy: like America's New Deal under FDR, funded with public bonds and increased taxes.
    *A massive defense industry/military-industrial complex, as currently exists in America, but no longer "defensive", but an active instrument of State politics.
    *The militarization of space.
    *Major efforts to influence or control foreign governments - already a long-standing American policy.
    *The massive importation of foreign laborers to supplement the available work force when needed, similar the current state in America, but fully documented and housed in secure camps under tightly guarded control.
    *A probable return of racism, still prevalent in America even now, and far more so in Germany itself.
    *An end to broken families and unmarried pregnancies by manipulating public pinion through media, television, motion pictures and the use of the courts.
    *Mandatory military service for all.
    *English as official language of the nation, and no foreign language documents or assistance.
    *A major change in military rules of engagement, with defeating and occupying enemy nations as a primary objective along with the seizure of critical resources.
    *The use of prison inmates as laborers and test subjects for medical experiments, advocated by many Americans today.
    *Strict control and discipline within any confinement facility from local jails to Federal penitentiaries, with harsh penalties and the use of force up to and including lethal force authorized.
    *Mandatory education, vocational training and strict discipline in public schools and universities.
    *Closure of the southern border with a military-guarded wall, with authorized use of lethal force.
    *Curtailment of many forms of free speech, especially those critical of the government or it's leadership and policies.
    *Mandatory death sentence for all capital crimes including drugs.
    *An increased police presence at every level "for the safety of the public".
    *Mandatory Pledge of Allegiance daily for all students and for everyone at any public event.
    *Mandatory public loyalty with harsh penalties for infractions. Someone like Clinton would be executed, perhaps publicly.
    *Use of lethal force to control rioting, looting and arson by mobs.
    *Major changes in foreign trade, with an emphasis on what the benefit to us will be.
    *Cancellation of all foreign aid to any nation that does not fully support us.
    *The end of NATO, SEATO and all other such organizations,already a popular concept in America.
    *Very likely an end to the UN presence in America, already a growing sentiment in America.

    These are just the ones I can think off the top of my head as most likely. There are other, darker ones that quite likely would soon appear.

    And to think that so many forum members sarcastically refer to Godwin's Law whenever comparisons to Nazi Germany, especially Germany of the 30's, are made. How little people really know about history. All it would take is one highly charismatic leader backed by the Democrats to make most, if not all, of this happen. A lot of it is already happening, one small piece at a time.
    Well I'm glad you've got that off your chest!

    Clearly there is so, so much you hate about your country and the way it is heading. (obviously down the same path as Nazi Germany so far as I can tell from what you say)

    However...….
    Tell me what you still love about it.
    Something?
    Anything?

    Serious question.

    Regards
    lodestar

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by lodestar View Post

      Well I'm glad you've got that off your chest!

      Clearly there is so, so much you hate about your country and the way it is heading. (obviously down the same path as Nazi Germany so far as I can tell from what you say)

      However...….
      Tell me what you still love about it.
      Something?
      Anything?

      Serious question.

      Regards
      lodestar
      Your observations are ,as usual, totally untrue. This is a hypothetical discussion, and my replies are made in kind.

      You, on the other hand, seem more concerned with attacking me than discussing the topic.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        Your observations are ,as usual, totally untrue. This is a hypothetical discussion, and my replies are made in kind.

        You, on the other hand, seem more concerned with attacking me than discussing the topic.
        Rubbish!

        Read what you wrote in the first few points you made:

        *A solid work ethic, with established work brigades.
        *Per the Democrats, a socialist form of government.
        *Socialized medicine, currently heavily advocated by the Democrats.
        *Corrupt and dishonest government officials, just as we have now.
        *The State above the individual, as we have now.
        *Control of the media and thereby all information, as is currently the case in America.
        *Lying as a form of controlling the population, as currently practiced in America.
        *Strict gun control and no guns in private hands, per the current Democratic agenda and as exists in many foreign nations, "for the safety of the public", along with a major expansion of "red flag" laws.
        *Large public projects to keep the workers busy: like America's New Deal under FDR, funded with public bonds and increased taxes.
        *A massive defense industry/military-industrial complex, as currently exists in America, but no longer "defensive", but an active instrument of State politics.
        *The militarization of space.
        *Major efforts to influence or control foreign governments - already a long-standing American policy.
        *The massive importation of foreign laborers to supplement the available work force when needed, similar the current state in America, but fully documented and housed in secure camps under tightly guarded control.
        *A probable return of racism, still prevalent in America even now, and far more so in Germany itself.


        The use of the terms I've highlighted in bold such as; 'Just as we have now', 'as is currently the case in America', 'as currently practiced in America' and 'similar to the current state in America', are not indications of you speaking hypothetically.
        They indicate you believe these phenomenon exist in your country today do they not?

        I didn't attack you, I questioned your ideas and asked you to respond - totally different.

        You're angry about 'the state of the union', the progressive agenda if you will, I get that.
        But what do you like about the US?
        A conservative senate?, Make-up of the Supreme Court?, Fox News?, the emerging push against political correctness? - there must be some things?

        BTW on a personal level I find you very readable and worth considering - I just don't agree with you, just like I enjoy material posted by wolfhnd but don't agree with him/her.

        If I remember correctly it was you who came to my rescue regarding a technical problem about posting I was having some years ago.

        Regards
        lodestar

        Comment


        • #49
          Yes, an interesting post from Mountain Man. I seldom agree with his points-of-view, ( as a non-American ) but he’s always thought-provoking and, therefore,his posts are always worth reading.
          "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
          Samuel Johnson.

          Comment


          • #50
            The uncomforable truth is that beyond an Industrial political murder campaign, and a higly successful military campaign (at first), there was nothing truly exceptional about the German Nazis,

            everything they did, happened before, and will happen again, in time.
            High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lodestar View Post

              Rubbish!

              Read what you wrote in the first few points you made:

              *A solid work ethic, with established work brigades.
              *Per the Democrats, a socialist form of government.
              *Socialized medicine, currently heavily advocated by the Democrats.
              *Corrupt and dishonest government officials, just as we have now.
              *The State above the individual, as we have now.
              *Control of the media and thereby all information, as is currently the case in America.
              *Lying as a form of controlling the population, as currently practiced in America.
              *Strict gun control and no guns in private hands, per the current Democratic agenda and as exists in many foreign nations, "for the safety of the public", along with a major expansion of "red flag" laws.
              *Large public projects to keep the workers busy: like America's New Deal under FDR, funded with public bonds and increased taxes.
              *A massive defense industry/military-industrial complex, as currently exists in America, but no longer "defensive", but an active instrument of State politics.
              *The militarization of space.
              *Major efforts to influence or control foreign governments - already a long-standing American policy.
              *The massive importation of foreign laborers to supplement the available work force when needed, similar the current state in America, but fully documented and housed in secure camps under tightly guarded control.
              *A probable return of racism, still prevalent in America even now, and far more so in Germany itself.


              The use of the terms I've highlighted in bold such as; 'Just as we have now', 'as is currently the case in America', 'as currently practiced in America' and 'similar to the current state in America', are not indications of you speaking hypothetically.
              They indicate you believe these phenomenon exist in your country today do they not?

              I didn't attack you, I questioned your ideas and asked you to respond - totally different.

              You're angry about 'the state of the union', the progressive agenda if you will, I get that.
              But what do you like about the US?
              A conservative senate?, Make-up of the Supreme Court?, Fox News?, the emerging push against political correctness? - there must be some things?

              BTW on a personal level I find you very readable and worth considering - I just don't agree with you, just like I enjoy material posted by wolfhnd but don't agree with him/her.

              If I remember correctly it was you who came to my rescue regarding a technical problem about posting I was having some years ago.

              Regards
              lodestar
              No, I am not angry at anything. Once again, this is a hypothetical discussion and I posted what I thought would be the potential hypothetical results based on current trends that we see all around us in America. You might have noticed that we already have extremists and neo-Nazis here in America. They have been here since WWII. Before that, we had extremists like John Brown and the KKK, and before them we had patriots/revolutionaries and loyalists. It's the nature of the beast. Obviously, nothing like that has ever occurred in the entire history of your nation.

              "Similar to the what is taking place today" means that there are movements already trending that direction. The Democratic Party is close to becoming a national socialist government with many of the same standards that Germany had in the 30's. That's a fact as well as an illustration of why I think the possible outcomes are, in fact, "possible" to begin with. But feel free to challenge any assumptions I have made and give your own reasons.

              For some strange reason, you want to make it personal, but I notice that you haven't attempted to answer the OP. Perhaps you should, and then I can accuse you of hating your country rather than simply engaging in a hypothetical discussion. Sounds more than fair to me.

              And for the record, this discussion is NOT about what I like about my own country. It is about the hypothetical situation proposed by the OP, which requires some out-of-box thinking. Having served my country for twenty yeas in uniform, I can hardly be accused of "hating" my own country. As a citizen and veteran, however, I have earned the right to be critical of some of what my government is doing. After all, according to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, they work for me. I certainly pay their salaries and fund their their insane social programs, because you know as well as I do that governments have no money of their own. They take it all from the working citizens.

              Meanwhile, I will await your own list in response to the OP with great anticipation.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                The uncomforable truth is that beyond an Industrial political murder campaign, and a higly successful military campaign (at first), there was nothing truly exceptional about the German Nazis,

                everything they did, happened before, and will happen again, in time.
                I would have to disagree. In the beginning, the Nazi party under Hitler accomplished an amazing feat in getting the workers of Germany and the population itself back on their feet,employed and re-instilled their devastated national pride and unity. That was an incredible feat of social engineering.

                Unfortunately, it was done for the wrong reasons by a man who tuned out to be a grandiose maniacal sociopath of the highest order, but the original resurrection of Germany was still a significant accomplishment.

                Ad don't forget that Germany followed Hitler willingly and eagerly. Even after the war, they only disliked Hitler because he had failed to give them the Thousand Year Reich that he promised, not because of anything else he had done to them. The Germans wanted what he wanted, and they followed him because he said he could give it to them. They weren't forced into anything.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I would have to disagree. In the beginning, the Nazi party under Hitler accomplished an amazing feat in getting the workers of Germany and the population itself back on their feet,employed and re-instilled their devastated national pride and unity. That was an incredible feat of social engineering.
                  But it was done with existent, "fascist" methods, as you point out, certainly not unreproducible.

                  To quote from your own post :

                  A solid work ethic, with established work brigades.

                  Large public projects to keep the workers busy, funded with public bonds and increased taxes.

                  A massive defense industry/military-industrial complex, but no longer "defensive", but an active instrument of State politics.
                  I'd add :

                  A massive dose of (pan-German) nationalism, violent oppression of all political opposition, creation and inflation of external enemy to promote national unity (Communists/Jews), nothing truly exceptional there either….

                  It's a recipe and can be repeated imho, if circumstances are "favourable",

                  what will be very hard to duplicate is the military campaign of 1939/41, and the organized industrial, mass political murder of millions…

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Ad don't forget that Germany followed Hitler willingly and eagerly. Even after the war, they only disliked Hitler because he had failed to give them the Thousand Year Reich that he promised, not because of anything else he had done to them. The Germans wanted what he wanted, and they followed him because he said he could give it to them. They weren't forced into anything.
                  The "charismatic leader" yes, but those too will be born again, not all of them will be homocidal egomaniacs like H. though, arguably the Nazis could have done "even better" if they had "followed" "someone else"
                  Last edited by Snowygerry; 04 Dec 19, 03:28.
                  High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                    But it was done with existent, "fascist" methods, as you point out, certainly not unreproducible.

                    To quote from your own post :



                    I'd add :

                    A massive dose of (pan-German) nationalism, violent oppression of all political opposition, creation and inflation of external enemy to promote national unity (Communists/Jews), nothing truly exceptional there either….

                    It's a recipe and can be repeated imho, if circumstances are "favourable",

                    what will be very hard to duplicate is the military campaign of 1939/41, and the organized industrial, mass political murder of millions…



                    The "charismatic leader" yes, but those too will be born again, not all of them will be homocidal egomaniacs like H. though, arguably the Nazis could have done "even better" if they had "followed" "someone else"
                    Didn't say it was perfect, but it worked brilliantly up until the true Nazi agenda was revealed. As for pan-nationalism, etc., we did it ourselves during WWII and well beyond. We rounded up thousands of American citizens and put them in concentration camps because they were of Japanese ancestry, but we didn't round up any Germans or Italians.

                    I also remember the hysteria surrounding the McCarthy hearings, and the wild accusations directed at everyone, and the unrestricted spying on American citizens during the Viet Nam war along with the CIA mind-altering drug experiments on unknowing citizens, including some of their own scientists.

                    Today, of course, we need only look to the Middle East to see Hitler's methods alive and well among the Muslim nations. Only need substitute "Muslim" for "Nazi" and all else is the same.

                    The Nazis were't the only only ones.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Only need substitute "Muslim" for "Nazi" and all else is the same.

                      The Nazis were't the only only ones.
                      Don't forget the Catholics, the Inquisition anyone ?

                      Or the Romans, they were the proto-fascists, the model on which the modern ones styled themselves.

                      Muslims are amateurs
                      Last edited by Snowygerry; Yesterday, 08:07.
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                        Don't forget the Catholics, the Inquisition anyone ?

                        Or the Romans, they were the proto-fascists, the model on which the modern ones styled themselves.

                        Muslims are amateurs
                        True.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment

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